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Nomad Lite


Jeff Wexler

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He darn well should for Petes sake. Can you imagine the chaos, conjecture, and confusion we would all be in regarding wanting to know the most minute details of complex configurations, software and hardware specifics? Thank goodness we don't need to HAT every freaking little time. Not only that, every little beef, frustration or suggestion wouldn't have made it to HAT in nearly an efficient a manner, and as such the little software tweaks we've been enjoying could have been delayed or never come at all. If there is zero remuneration for this WORK we should take a collection!

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Basically a Chevy or Ford will get you where you want to go

Yeah, back in the Nagra days this comparison would work. Today it would be more like the sound person is expected to drive several cars at once. Hence having many features built into one machine is a bit like having a drive assist - it helps!

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The recorders from both companies offer more than I ever need 99% of the time. The price points on the new recorders are better than those I spent on my Nagras way back when. No one recorder can do everything for everyone every time. I for one am grateful we have these great tools available to us today. Basically a Chevy or Ford will get you where you want to go unless you let some bs ego thing get in the way. We have many great tools for doing the work at hand these days and they keep getting better. I see no down side for the grunts like us doing the jobs out there. Thanks Zax and SD for all the improvements in your products.

CrewC

The down side can be that as capability and complexity increase, so does what producers expect for the same money. So these marvelous machines really need to be absolutely rock solid in access and execution to deliver these expectations without us ending up with red faces!

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He darn well should for Petes sake. Can you imagine the chaos, conjecture, and confusion we would all be in regarding wanting to know the most minute details of complex configurations, software and hardware specifics?

...and most importantly, this information from someone who is actually using the equipment, doing the jobs, not just "beta testing" for the manufacturer. Jack, amongst others, is a very busy working sound mixer. All of us in the very early days of the very first Deva (and by all of us I mean a very, very small number of very brave sound mixers) were beta testers for the machine, but actually, we were beta testers for a revolutionary paradigm switch, the transition from linear tape mediums to digital non-linear file based production recording. Can you imagine the chaos, conjecture and confusion we would have had, industry wide, if those very few beta testers (me included) had not dedicated themselves to educating the rest of the sound people involved in our work. I hail the tireless participation of Jack Norflus and others here, dedicated to understanding the increasingly complex tools we use and navigating the increasingly complex and demanding workplace.

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The down side can be that as capability and complexity increase, so does what producers expect for the same money. So these marvelous machines really need to be absolutely rock solid in access and execution to deliver these expectations without us ending up with red faces!

I agree. In terms of "rock solid" I think WE have to be rock solid in our understanding and operation of these tools, at least as rock solid as the equipment... and at this time, I am afraid that the equipment is often MORE rock solid than we are while taking jobs where the expectations of the employer are so far out of line it is almost laughable.

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Settle down. This is nothing like those poor cameramen who keep buying expensive new cameras that are then overshadowed by another new model every year. How would you like to be those poor bastards?

Which is why most cameramen I work with rent specific cameras from hire firms to suit each job unless they know they can pay off the balance in one hit.

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It seems to me that people are somewhat missing a trick or two here...

If I bought a fancy Chevrolet car, and it cost me, say, $30k. If some months later Chevrolet decided that the competition was getting a bit keen, and that they should adjust their prices, and they dropped the price of my car by say $5k, it would be a shame, but I dont think I'd be that pissed off - it would be a pity, but I would have had the benefit of driving that car for the months before the price drop. More to the point the dealer are not going to come chasing after me to give $5k back. Its tough, but its life....

I happened to be speaking with Glenn today, on another matter, and we talked around the following....

Basically, Zax are making the buyng choice simpler by offering three models instead of four. Nomad Lite will be a simpler machine, that has headline specs that are pretty close to the SD664 without the extra faders fitted. Nomad 10 is a pretty well specced machine, and Nomad 12 has everything fitted.

Existing owners will be offered upgrades, should they wish to take them.

Nomad 4 will upgrade to Nomad Lite

Nomad 6 will upgrade to Nomad 10

Nomad 8 will uggrade to Nomad 12

The above upgrades will basically only involve software unlocks, but may well need to be done by a dealer. They will cost somewhere in the region of low hundreds of dolars.

The way I see it, everyone has an opportunity to 'win' somewhat. Everyone can have the option of a better machine than they bought, but at a fraction of the old upgrade price.

Kindest regards to all,

sb

Well, um, sort of.

Those of us that have had our 'Chevrolets' for only a few weeks haven't really had the benefit of much driving time. Especially when they have to go back to the factory for fixes...

Look, I get that crap happens. But at the kind of costs we're talking about for their recorders it's incredibly galling to have Zaxcom effectively insert a new model into the range that does all the things I paid extra for (extra track count, Zaxnet) but at a lower price point. It might be nice to be able to upgrade for less than previously costed, but do I really need to jump up to a 12? I'd rather my 8 had simply cost a grand less thanks very much!

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I can understand you are a bit frustrated. I have a 6 I want to upgrade soonish. I pretty much wanted to go to the old 8 track recorder, with USB recording. If you just wanted a lower sticker price, have you been doing jobs with it and collecting rental? The new pricing is now, and a lot of people have been using their Nomads for months *HOPEFULLY* making money off them as a rental. Again, not to mitigate your frustration, but haven't you make more than $1,000 in the last few months? That's how I am looking at it, and I was using a significantly lighter rig, so I am in a better place. I am not dead tired at the end of a day, and have the energy to go rowing or running. That's worth a lot to me.

The car comparison makes some sense. A 2011 car today (with 0 miles on it) is going to cost a lot less than it did in January of 2011. The car works the same as it did back then, but the price is still less than it used to be. This is really the case with motorcycles. It's not uncommon to see a "new" (0 miles) 1 or 2 year old motorcycle on a showroom floor for less money than when the model debuted. The reasons are different, but the results are the same. Same could be said for the iPhone 4 being free now, and it was a few hundred bucks 2 years ago. Still works just as well as it did in 2010. Same guts, just a new price.

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I can understand you are a bit frustrated. I have a 6 I want to upgrade soonish. I pretty much wanted to go to the old 8 track recorder, with USB recording. If you just wanted a lower sticker price, have you been doing jobs with it and collecting rental? The new pricing is now, and a lot of people have been using their Nomads for months *HOPEFULLY* making money off them as a rental. Again, not to mitigate your frustration, but haven't you make more than $1,000 in the last few months?

NO. In the 6 weeks or so I've owned mine 3 weeks have been dedicated to factory repairs and shipping. It's earned me next to zip. In fact it's actually cost me money!

That's how I am looking at it, and I was using a significantly lighter rig, so I am in a better place. I am not dead tired at the end of a day, and have the energy to go rowing or running. That's worth a lot to me.

The new, cheaper model is no heavier than the 'old'...

The car comparison makes some sense. A 2011 car today (with 0 miles on it) is going to cost a lot less than it did in January of 2011. The car works the same as it did back then, but the price is still less than it used to be. This is really the case with motorcycles. It's not uncommon to see a "new" (0 miles) 1 or 2 year old motorcycle on a showroom floor for less money than when the model debuted. The reasons are different, but the results are the same. Same could be said for the iPhone 4 being free now, and it was a few hundred bucks 2 years ago. Still works just as well as it did in 2010. Same guts, just a new price.

I can't stand the car comparison. It's not a car with those inherent levels of depreciation attached. Or a cell phone. The price point isn't being altered because the machine is out of date, but because Zaxcom can see a financial advantage in doing so. As a competitive company this probably makes sense. For me - the very recent customer - its a total pisser.

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NO. In the 6 weeks or so I've owned mine 3 weeks have been dedicated to factory repairs and shipping. It's earned me next to zip. In fact it's actually cost me money!

Sorry to hear of your troubles but I think your experience is rather the exception than the rule. I believe that Johnpaul was addressing the issue from the perspective of the majority of the 100 or more owners of Nomad who have been out working with their recorders, earning money and enjoying using it. Of the 3 weeks out of 6 that you have had your Nomad, were you able to work with it at all or was it a defective unit from the git go? What repairs were needed that consumed 3 weeks?

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...and most importantly, this information from someone who is actually using the equipment, doing the jobs, not just "beta testing" for the manufacturer. Jack, amongst others, is a very busy working sound mixer. All of us in the very early days of the very first Deva (and by all of us I mean a very, very small number of very brave sound mixers) were beta testers for the machine, but actually, we were beta testers for a revolutionary paradigm switch, the transition from linear tape mediums to digital non-linear file based production recording. I hail the tireless participation of Jack Norflus and others here, dedicated to understanding the increasingly complex tools we use and navigating the increasingly complex and demanding workplace.

It's all fine RE Jack Norflus, he sure is tirelessly promoting Zaxcom like a true 'brave hero'. It wouldn't hurt though to be a bit more forthcoming regarding his 'job description'. It does seem that he gets paid for his work as 'consultant' or PR. Nothing wrong with it, but why hiding it?

Jeff, the Deva was an early, maybe even the earliest digital location hard drive recorder. The technology though was well tested and used by thousands before, just not in the field. Computer recording (that's what it is) was not invented by Zaxcom. And of course digital field recorders have been around for years before the Deva, they were called DAT machines. Besides changing the recording medium from tape to hard drive the essentials did not change that much, besides that this made it easier to do multi tracks in the field. But that has been done before too. Evolutionary, yes, revolutionary, not exactly.

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The down side can be that as capability and complexity increase, so does what producers expect for the same money. So these marvelous machines really need to be absolutely rock solid in access and execution to deliver these expectations without us ending up with red faces!

Regardless the recorder, only you can take or pass on an unreasonable job from and unreasonable producer Mr pindrop. I wouldn't blame the machine for that. My experience with my Deva and Sound Devices recorders have been "rock solid". I'm sure some have issues but I have never had that experience.

CrewC

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I'm bit annoyed. I only got the 8 because of the track count. I had no plans to use ZaxNet (my wireless are all lectros) or the usb, or AES.

So I could have got a "lite" and saved myself almost 2 grand. and got 2 more record tracks!! >:(

I feel a bit swindled.

This is my first time buying a Zaxcom product. Not impressed.

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I'm bit annoyed. I only got the 8 because of the track count. I had no plans to use ZaxNet (my wireless are all lectros) or the usb, or AES.

So I could have got a "lite" and saved myself almost 2 grand. and got 2 more record tracks!! >:(

I feel a bit swindled.

This is my first time buying a Zaxcom product. Not impressed.

+1

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I'm bit annoyed. I only got the 8 because of the track count. I had no plans to use ZaxNet (my wireless are all lectros) or the usb, or AES.

So I could have got a "lite" and saved myself almost 2 grand. and got 2 more record tracks!! >:(

I feel a bit swindled.

This is my first time buying a Zaxcom product. Not impressed.

Maybe a free QRX100 would assuage some of your sentiment... The brute dollars out of pocket would go a long way for Zaxcom. How much is the float of Nomads, anyway-maybe 200 pieces?

BTW what are the three most common applications for a Nomad 12, that the Nomad 8, can't handle, please?

Thank you very much

Fury

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Jeff, the Deva was an early, maybe even the earliest digital location hard drive recorder. The technology though was well tested and used by thousands before, just not in the field. Computer recording (that's what it is) was not invented by Zaxcom. And of course digital field recorders have been around for years before the Deva, they were called DAT machines. Besides changing the recording medium from tape to hard drive the essentials did not change that much, besides that this made it easier to do multi tracks in the field. But that has been done before too. Evolutionary, yes, revolutionary, not exactly.

You are absolutely wrong, ill-informed and completely unaware of the history of the technology and the formats in the field of production sound recording for picture. Okay, here goes the history lesson:

"Jeff, the Deva was an early, maybe even the earliest digital location hard drive recorder"

Not early, not the earliest, but the first ever portable production sound recorder that recorded digital audio as a computer file --- I know this because I was the first to use the Deva I in production on a motion picture and there had been no other device to do this sort of recording before the Deva (which is why no one else had ever done it in production in motion picture sound recording).

"The technology though was well tested and used by thousands before, just not in the field. Computer recording (that's what it is) was not invented by Zaxcom."

No one has ever claimed that Zaxcom invented digital file recording. As I stated to our Union sponsored seminar on multitrack recording while holding up the Deva I, the amazing thing about the Deva portable production sound recorder is that it brings the tried and true process of producing digital audio files, the de facto standard working procedure in POST production sound recording, to the Production Sound Mixer working in the field --- and all of this in the first ever rugged, dependable, battery operated location field recorder. For the first time ever, Production Sound Mixers are able to produce and deliver for the master location sound recording, the very same (computer) sound files that everyone else working on the soundtrack (in post) on a movie have been doing for years. Revolutionary? Evolutionary? Makes no difference to me what you call it as long as the accomplishments and achievements by Zaxcom with the original Deva, and those that supported and pushed for its adoption in our industry, are recognized and celebrated.

"And of course digital field recorders have been around for years before the Deva, they were called DAT machines"

Again, this shows your lack of understanding of not only the technology but the history of production recording in our industry. As you may or may not know, I was also the first person to use DAT in production for motion pictures. The industry at large, the facilities and the people in post sound, were 100% against this format and refused to even consider the DAT machines "digital field recorders." The early adopters of the DAT format had a very rough road trying to promote their use of an unknown and unproven method of production sound recording for motion pictures. Additionally, you are correct in saying that DAT machines were digital field recorders, but they utilized linear tape based recording technology that required very little change in the methods or workflow that we had been using for years and years (the Nagra years). The transition to file based recording was a far more difficult thing to accomplish. Again, I know these things very personally because I was the one that was having to do these things.

"Besides changing the recording medium from tape to hard drive the essentials did not change that much, besides that this made it easier to do multi tracks in the field. But that has been done before too."

Again, this simplistic and inaccurate statement reveals that you have not had to personally shepherd in either of these methods, linear DAT recording or file based recording. The change from tape to hard drive may have been easy for you but that is because a whole lot of people fought for this change because we passionately felt that it was the right thing to do; it wasn't easy and "the essentials" in terms of integrating what we do in production with what they do in post, DID have to change, a lot!

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I'll give you four:

Track 9, Track 10, Track 11, and Track 12.

Seriously though, no other technical advantage to my knowledge.

Well...now that U were the first to take the bait, what are the three most frequent, actual applications i real world recoding for the additional tracks, please? I guess that would go a long way to answer the Potency/$$$ question, that I perceive is on a lotta minds here.

Thank you very much

Fury

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NO. In the 6 weeks or so I've owned mine 3 weeks have been dedicated to factory repairs and shipping. It's earned me next to zip. In fact it's actually cost me money!

Ok, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear of your problems.

I looked at my Invoice and I got mine about 1-July and it's been flawless in the 3 months of ownership.

In terms of less weight, I meant compared to anything else out there. My Fusion in a PEGZ3, a 744T+552, whatever. They are a lot heavier. I had just finished a month long doc carrying a 35lb bag (and booming) when I decided my health and happiness was important, and bought a Nomad.

I guess this is what happens when Apple surprises people with a new product and the one they bought is *JUST* past the date of returns. It can't hurt to talk to your dealer. If you have only had it for 3 weeks, you may have a reason to raise an issue. If your purchase date was close enough to this, you may have been able to "return it" for a refund and then rebuy it (like Apple does).

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Well...now that U were the first to take the bait, what are the three most frequent, actual applications i real world recoding for the additional tracks, please? I guess that would go a long way to answer the Potency/$$$ question, that I perceive is on a lotta minds here.

Thank you very much

Fury

Yeah, that was a bit sarcastic on my part. Sorry.

If you need to use your return inputs for an extra pair of line level inputs, you can have all 8 inputs on ISOs and still be able to deliver a stereo mix, something you can't do with the eight. I think you can record both TA5s for 10 isos, but I'll have to check on that.

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Ok, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear of your problems.

I looked at my Invoice and I got mine about 1-July and it's been flawless in the 3 months of ownership.

In terms of less weight, I meant compared to anything else out there. My Fusion in a PEGZ3, a 744T+552, whatever. They are a lot heavier. I had just finished a month long doc carrying a 35lb bag (and booming) when I decided my health and happiness was important, and bought a Nomad.

I guess this is what happens when Apple surprises people with a new product and the one they bought is *JUST* past the date of returns. It can't hurt to talk to your dealer. If you have only had it for 3 weeks, you may have a reason to raise an issue. If your purchase date was close enough to this, you may have been able to "return it" for a refund and then rebuy it (like Apple does).

I get what you are saying, but here in the UK Zaxcom Nomads are still a relatively new product addition. In fact I think the delivery time on them is still 6 weeks at very minimum. This means that there are very few recordists with an 8 or 12 who have had time to accrue any kind of rental earnings from their machines that might offset this extremely sudden price drop. I happily bought my Nomad 8 as a lighter, more ENG friendly alternative to the Sound Devices 788 with a similar price point and many built in advantages over the latter. The release of the Lite and 10 turns these small advantages into items I have paid dearly for, particularly as several of the 'extra' features of the 8 and 12 are still in development. While I really like the Zaxnet IFB option I am yet to take the plunge into a full Zaxcom wireless array. The difference between the cost of my 8 and a 10 or Lite might therefore have been better spent on something like the Timecode buddy or an alternative IFB system : or even a Zaxcom camera hop. A more accurate Apple comparison might be that having only just made the iPhone 5 available to UK customers Apple almost immediately release the 5S at a lower price point.

Like OneLouder I'm having a hard time not feeling a bit swindled by what feels like a somewhat cynical move on Zaxcom's part and rather less likely to invest any more of my hard earned money in the companies products. I'm very interested to hear what the response to us 'early' adopters of the 8 and 12 will be. The offer of a cheaper upgrade to a 12 seems redundant as in my world of entertainment, documentary and reality programming 12 tracks are very, very rarely required from one recorder.

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I really need to get used to this new pricing concept.

Buy a box that does everything. It's all in there. But we'll only allow you to access the bits you pay for.

I questioned this concept, one I consider bizarre, a while ago and got a raft of shit from Zaxcom aficionados. I don't so much argue with an upgrade fee for either software or hardware (particularly hardware), but I do disagree with a company policy that charges an additional $300 (over and above the difference between models) that are (perhaps were?) charged for a software unlock code.

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