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Las Vegas local ENG sound mixer needed 10/5 through 10/7/12


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AFMY makes some really good points.

The problem with this different tier approach (and, of course there are different tiers) is that too many beginners are using it as an excuse for undercutting other people's rates. That hurts everyone.

If another person has charged $700 a day for labor/rental total for a given type of web video, then rationalizing that, "Hey, it's just a web video so I'm fine charging only $400," is both disingenuous and damaging to the industry. It becomes a cop out for stabbing other mixers in the back. It also diminishes the future of the person doing it, but they're too green to realize it.

Over the years I've made good money doing all the types of videos that some here have claimed merit only low dollars -- web videos, small cable shows, quickie corporate gigs, even some low budget features that paid properly. So, if all of those categories are now only offering starvation wages, they've had some help from people in our industry.

For clarity, I see indie films as a variable landscape that can be a proper place for a beginner to learn while making only the low dollars they're convinced they deserve. Any type of corporate or commercial gig is not.

A McDouble from McDonald's is $0.99 if it's feeding Donald Trump or a homeless man on the street. Unless your in an airport... but that's a different discussion...

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So you don't believe that what you know has any value then...

Sure I do believe it has value. And sometimes I get paid for it, which makes it even nicer. I won't put any effort into a hopeless case or an unsympathetic fellow. But know what, there's two guys helping me out for free on a project now, just because I helped them out in the past. The good guys seem to remember.

Peace ;)

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I have no fear of explicitly talking rates here or anywhere. Maybe I temper it a bit on set or direct it to the right people but I don't shroud any of it in secrecy. I just don't see a reason for it.

AFMY, it's actually news to me that $600/day is a low rate. I know a couple of very busy guys around here that would say $650 is decent and kind of average. Good to know for future reference that I should push that higher.

That said, I feel I can't personally justify the rates most of you guys get for gear. I have a Nomad 6, a couple G3s, a 4073 on an old k-tek, just got a TS-3, plus some comteks that are, like me, almost 40 yrs old. Probably $10k in gear. 2% would be $200. If I had 6 channels of Lectro 411s with SMQVs things would be different.

Labor rate for an easy day of talking head interviews where I put the boom on a stand, wire one talent, and stand there and act like I'm turning faders for maybe 6 hrs out of a 10 hr day? I'd say anything from $650 down to $350 would be mostly fair.

Since the jobs I'm doing are low end corporate...usually internally distributed or displayed in-store, or on Youtube...I expect they've been given less budget on everything.

In the case of high-end corporate, commercials, TV, REAL films...the above paradigm is gone as these budgets are likely based on union rates or they ARE union. What's that, minimum mixer rate of $67/hr for 10? Gear almost always top rental rate?

Point is, there are different factors that define different projects. Every industry has their different tiers. A CPA can have a person as one of their clients and charge $200 to do their taxes and then have a business as another client and charge them $2000 to do their taxes. It might even take the same amount of time to do it but that's just the way it goes.

Now, if someone came to me wanting sound for a fitness video, high-end commercial, TV show...I'd go in at approximately $1200 ($400 gear, $800 labor) plus I'd require an A2 for at least $400. The amount of work and gear is totally different.

I guess I'm trying to say I would never undercut any tier of production sound. Tier 1 is associated with $800+, don't do less. Tier 2 is associated with $450-$750, don't do less, etc. It's also likely the gear requirements will change from tier to tier.

Was this Vegas job a tier 1 type job asking for tier 2 rate? Doubtful. I hope it all fit the bill and was fair for everyone.

For AFMY, Eric, John, Mirror and all other major pros...I respect that you guys are top-notch engineers with the best gear. I imagine you have many clients who keep you busy all the time. I have no doubt that the projects you work on sound perfect every time and that you're able to make that happen even with circumstances that make it almost impossible. You deserve the rates you get, and we all know you will continue to get them. Everyone on here hopes to attain your levels of skill and rate.

However, I do find it a little bit absurd to suggest that someone should go mow lawns, dig ditches, wait tables, or push papers (and probably max out at $40/hr) rather than affect a downward slide in the rates of an entire industry. It's naive to believe that only one factor can destroy a viable industry. There must be factors other than workers agreeing to lower rates at play here. I'll take a guess at one that I bet is a big, unfortunate factor...most producers and audience members don't really care if something sounds good or great. If it sounds OK and doesn't cost much, most producers are happy and the audience doesn't have a clue.

Much like the way electronics manufacturing has almost all gone to China and we buy a TV for a couple hundred bucks, it breaks soon after warranty expires and we say 'oh well'. Could have bought American, but didn't because the Chinese one was cheaper and did about the same thing. Maybe the picture wasn't as clear and the speakers were a little distorted but it got the job done. That would be an accurate description of 90% of producers and audience.

Don't mean to prattle on so long or insult anyone.

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D.O.,

The amount of hours does not matter, 6, 8 4, it's always 10... if your out early, great, but never bargain for a half day, it does not exist... you can't be on another show that day... that is the understanding.... so to say that it's only 4 hours, and that's why you charged $400 is a wrong way to think about it... Try not to play that game.. It leads to lower rates...

First, the OP said $400.00 for everything.... I'll say it again.... I don't know what Tier that is, but if it exists, it sucks... even in Vegas.. and is wrong... for gear and a human... unless it is a small doc. for a non profit, or a student film ... Any professional show offering that should be denied... Heck, I gave up a job this weekend, they said it was for the Phoenix Suns, (that's all I had to hear) $1000 for 2 days... gear and Human... I said, no thank you... I will not be part of the problem.. it's really not that hard, I am paid for that job by knowing I am not contributing to my own demise... and the demise of all of you..

Commercial rates... remember, we work a few days here and there, not weeks on end...

Flatting out and the $600 you speak of...

$600 for gear in our commercial world IS pretty low.... ESPECIALLY flatted out which is happening with hacks...We expect ourselves (at least the bunch of us I know) to have at least 6 Lectro or Zax radio mic units on standby, up to 20 comtek headsets... console, recorder(s), 3 or more slates, carts, various boom poles, mics, plant mics, playback speakers, V.O.Gs, Sync boxes, feeds to cameras on and on and on....

Funny, but prices should be equal in smaller markets if you think about it.., they have less choices and would have to pay much more to bring someone in... Just a thought...

A Pilot gets paid the same whether they fly to Phily or LA.... I never understood why we are different... but that's another thought...

My package is pretty big and fills a full size van... many of us run like this.. These types of shows come up fast, sometimes change quickly , are not always properly planned for US, and you need to have everything ready to go.... that extra gear being as I said "billed as used" for all that is thrown at us outside our basic package. that basic package is normally $675 to 750 without all the fluff.. (radios, PB speakers, VOG and more than say 3 comteks) The flatting out of our gear by "some people" at rates like $600 really hurts us all I believe... IN MY MARKET...

It's a bit like being surprised with the need for gear quickly, because production threw us a curve, and instead of having someone from production go rent it from LSC or someone, and pay for it as they should, we provide it instead, only for free... how is that right for all of us who paid good money for it's purchase and upkeep?... It's not, that's why it must stop, and we all need to understand that it's wrong, and have them pay for the gear.. Never flat your package... provide a basic package, and if subsequent gear is needed, charge for it, make that clear from the beginning, it's not that difficult..

Geographical situations play into this for sure, but understand what they are and stick to the basics in your region... thats fair.. .... the overall rates may be less, but the style of billing, the no flatting, the billing for expendables and extra gear needed, the no 2 day week crap all can be practiced everywhere.... It can be less, but the same if you follow me...

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are you a real person?

Fury is real, albeit, with an attenuated, narrow beam of light, after a another trip to the ER. Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner-otherwise occupied.

BTW, Fury has had, the ultimate responsibility, that one person can have for another's person, in past careers, countless times. Still Fury remains woefully under-qualified as a Sound Recordist, according to what most would , certainly adjudicate here.

For those, who have difficulty with Fury's prose, please bifurcate, trifurcate, etc. the text, then reassemble, but not necessarily in the original order...

Thank you very much

Fury

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Little update on the job. Gear required 1 channel recording and an xlr cable to plug in to the house board. they did not realize that the venue provides lavs for the conference. 11am-7pm. My friend is using a 702t but a Zoom recorder would have been enough. So $50 an hour for pressing a record button with zero prep work is fair.

One thing I learned is to never assume anything about a job before I found out detailes. I have done plenty of jobs for around $450 where I show up and Eng for an hour...

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" a Zoom recorder would have been enough. So $50 an hour for pressing a record button with zero prep work is fair. "

and frankly, this gig doesn't sound like it really required a major, experienced pro, does it ?

I point this out in regards to my posting on ZZoom on a Boom thread.

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" a Zoom recorder would have been enough. So $50 an hour for pressing a record button with zero prep work is fair. "

and frankly, this gig doesn't sound like it really required a major, experienced pro, does it ?

I point this out in regards to my posting on ZZoom on a Boom thread.

you are spot on senator. And the funny thing is the production have 2 zooms...

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Glad it worked out Rado.... sometimes that actually happens... I will admit, I knew little about the OPs job details... jump to a conclusion... yes...

funny, if it was so easy, why advertise for ANY sound person and simply have the hotel maid do it... or the driver...

Jobs that are actually as advertised for $400 being a $400 job, - 1

Jobs that say $400-500 for everything and include regular packages and the low pay - 4,986..

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