Rasmus Wedin Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Of course it does, why else would I write something like that? And also, clients over here now know a DPA from any other lav, at least that's my experience. Dpas are the standard, even in reality shows and eng. Thanks to the heads up Christian! And that's why I'm also sticking with dpas for now, I trust that I can get good enough sound with my current setup, and til I buy a new wireless system ill just leave my current one as is. Yeah, DPAs are standard here, weather they can hear the difference or not. Olle, imagine comming to set with a lav that says "Ost" . Gonna raise some eyebrows and get som questions. For those who don't know, "Ost" means cheese in Swedish. Still, would be so sweet with a bunch of different coloured lavs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 In the Netherlands they care shit about what lav we use, as long as it sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 In the Netherlands they care shit about what lav we use, as long as it sounds good. How nice! That's the best part of this forum; the insight into how different countries deal with the same type of work, different standards and whatnot. Rasmus; yeah that made me chuckle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 How does that show? Do they send you a callsheet with the required shotguns and lavs on it or does the producer Inspect your gear upon arrival? I find it quite interesting that your g2 set gets "approved" but they "demand" a DPA lav (mark the quotations). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 How does that show? Do they send you a callsheet with the required shotguns and lavs on it or does the producer Inspect your gear upon arrival? I find it quite interesting that your g2 set gets "approved" but they "demand" a DPA lav (mark the quotations). Technically, I've never been set back because of not using a DPA lav or a g2, no one has ever left a remark so i might be over anxious. And I am not comfortable with only owning and providing g2s, believe me. But at least the g2s look like g3s, so I get by. As far as producers care it's a "Sennheiser" system. DPA lavs is a sort of quality assurance I guess. Actually, buying into zaxcom gear, which I will at some point, will probably require me to "explain" my gear a lot more, which is odd because the g2s are far inferior! But still, it's a brand of confidence. As well as sound devices, it doesn't require any "explanation" over here, which I wish we wouldn't have to give, but some producers really want to see that we have "the right" gear. But it depends of course. DPA is one of those brands that producers recognize and "know", and therefore it could be a deal breaker. I believe I can deliver as good audio with OST as I can with DPA, it's that archer type deal, but some producers (inexperienced or just anxious) will want the DPA for assurance... Weird as it is. Long post... Anyone wanna bet the senator will quote this post and give a lecture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've never encountered a producer who had even the slightest concern for what kind of lav I was using. And rarely ever a care for what kind of wireless system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 " But at least the g2s look like g3s, " and sound the same.... ..and do you really want the lecture ?? (and the demo of the "dreaded key test" ?? I strongly suspect some, maybe even many here ought to have it... Sennheiser Evolution series with a DPA lav vs a high end system with an OST = no contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Olle, don't be so paranoid about the Senator. If he doesn't behave, ignore him or just think of him as the Insanitor. (Though in this thread he's been behaving so far, hasn't he?) About the producers in Sweden, that just sounds so weird. If a producer asked me if I have DPA lavs, I'd be tempted to tell them something like "If you mean to ask whether my equipment has the quality to deliver excellent sound, the answer is yes, regardless of whether or not DPA lavs are part of my kit." And I don't totally agree that Sennheiser Evolution series with a DPA lav vs a high end system with an OST = no contest. For a sit down interview situation with the mic worn on the outside I would actually prefer the first. I mean of course I would use a boom first but then the DPA with a G2 before I'd take an OST. Now, on a drama shoot or doco where the disadvantages of a G3 system come into play vs. a high end wireless system, that's another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 " I would actually prefer the first. " so ? can anyone actually tell the difference in a blind listening comparison ? When I give the lecture, I specifically point out (via a live demonstration) that for dialog --and BTW, not just for " For a sit down interview situation with the mic worn on the outside "-- but for movie dialog, The Senn Evolution series does a fine job, even with the standard, furnished, lav mic, and while the class can hear a difference between that system and a $3500 system with premium lav, generally they are about evenly split on which they prefer... that is for dialog, but then come the keys on a ring, and there is no question which is the $600 system. The point is, that the Senn Evolution RF mic's available for checkout at the school are perfectly adequate for their projects. So far, no student, after many years now, has come back saying that anyone recognized any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 No contest, agreed. And it is weird, but maybe it's just coincidence and my producers and clients have all been control freaks... I feel this all might be a quite big reaction, I might have exaggerated and explained poorly. No big deal really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 No, I know what you mean Olle. Here in Sweden DPA lavs really are the standard for rental kits. The (other people in the) crew are just used to seeing them as the only option. I wouldn't say I've had producers "inspect" my gear, but I had one come up to me on a shoot: Producer: What the hell kind of mic is that? Me: It's a Sanken COS 11D. Producer: That's so weird. Will it work? Me: Well, it's one of the most used lavs in the Hollywood movie industry, so I think we'll be fine. As long as you can back your gear up, I think you'll be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) " Producer: That's so weird. Will it work? " was that on, perhaps, Sept 28 ?? Edited October 9, 2012 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 " Producer: That's so weird. Will it work? " was that on, perhaps, Sept 28 ?? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 What? Sept 28 is stupid questions day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Haha, might aswell have been..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 " Makes me wonder why we would buy OST for any reason other than the price? If price were not an issue, would you still get Trams over these microphones? What do we pay for with the extra $100? " guess it just isn't that simple... " Makes me wonder why we would buy OST for any reason other than the price? If price were not an issue, would you still get Trams over these microphones? What do we pay for with the extra $100? " guess it just isn't that simple... I just wanted to follow-up on this a bit. I decided to go buy an OST-801 to try it out, and had some issues with it. When I purchased it at Pro-Sound Services in NY, the sales guys told me the microphone had more self-noise than the Tram. I definitely have to confirm that. Afterwards I did a side by side at the store of an OST-801 and a Tram. The OST-801 definitely had more self-noise. Pretty audible. There was another issue that was even more problematic, and possibly related. For some reason, my Lectrosonics UM200C/UCR201 series didn't seem to play well with the OST lavs. I'm actually not sure about the cause. I tried it out on talent, and I heard what sounded like pumping on some of the dialogue. I read through the transmitter (UM200) manual and it suggested that a low setting for the transmitter gain may be causing it, so I turned the gain up to max (standard operation, according the manual, is red "limiter LED going off 10-15% of the time"), but could not get the manual-quoted amount of level for normal-speaking dialogue. Not sure if something similar happens with the (also I've heard is low-output) Tram. I brought it back to PSS and we investigated the problem. Evidently, the UCR201 has a so-called "tri-mode dynamic filter" which kicks in to reduce hiss in areas of problematic RF. As I did the tests (and I brought my COS-11s to compare), though, I noticed that the hiss reduction and the transmitter/receiver's own companders are much more noticeable because of the OST-801's higher level of self-noise. I had done tests at home before I brought it in, too, on both of my Lectrosonics blocks (Block 21 & 24). I still felt like I could hear either the compander or hiss reduction much more audibly on the OST-801 than on the COS-11. I think it's just because the hiss was more audible that I could hear it. It seems like post could do...something for it, but I do have to say it bothers me. In conclusion...I don't know what to say. The guys at PSS didn't seem to think the microphone was defective in any way, so probably wasn't that. I feel like the lav might play better with the Sennheiser G3 (something that doesn't have hiss reduction in that way or that much clarity) or some other system like the 400 that would let the signal through better. Another thing is that I only heard the 801's pumping when I hid the lav, and not when I exposed it. I used a vampire clip arrangement during the scene I used it for (facing into clip, to get some HF boost under the collar). The microphone takes on a much more muffled/distant sound when hidden. For the few seconds I used the Tram at PSS, it did sound much cleaner and didn't seem to give me the same problems. However, I don't own that mike so I didn't get to do too many tests to see if it would give me the same problems in the same situations. I have since returned the 801, more because of needing a tiny financial boost (lost some gigs because of Hurricane Sandy), but still...what do you guys think could have been the problem? I might post some samples. I'm also in the state of moving (sort of) so kind of messy over here. It might take me awhile to get that done. I should say that I'm pretty new to Trams. I've mostly use COS-11s and trying to mount the OST-801 was a...special experience. I think it also sounded a bit peaky (is it because I mounted it upside down?), though I wasn't sure..... EDIT: Also, sorry for reviving an old post. But I thought it was better than starting a new post, and this thread's title fits so well. UPDATE: Never mind. It looks like PSS won't take it back. And now I'm stuck with it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 I own two of the 802's and I don't find them to be noisy at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Talk to OST directly and ask them if they would exchange the 801 for a TL40 or 802. Since you're used to the COS11 this might suit your needs more. I have used both 802 and TL40 on Lectro 100 and hybrid series and have no issues. Their customer support is pretty good so they might help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Did you actually try them on a 400 series Lectro? If you are near the shop, or somebody else's kit, try that out. Absolute worst case you may be able to sell them at a minimal loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Just received my pair of TL-40's today. All I've had time to do was unpackage them and run a quick check to make sure the connectors fit well, but they look pretty solid and SO much smaller than the stock G3 mics. Nice Remote Audio connectors. I'll run some tests in the next few days when I have some time. Nice that they came from Edison, New Jersey, where I went to high school! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampasound Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 @ AndyB...i would love to hear how they work with your G3s....I have G2s and was wondering how would they work with OST lavs. Also, can somebody explain the difference between OST 3 lavs (801,802,TL40) i have noticed their frequency response and i would like to know if i have to buy a pair which one would you suggest?...how the frequency response affect their usage...?... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 801 has the high freq boost, better for hiding under clothing (if you know how). 802 better for plain sight or plant usage. TL40 is small and has a high emphasize so best for drama (hidden) application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I've only used the OST 801's with Lectro SMa's and 411/Venue VRT receivers, so I can't for a fact say that it will sound good with all wireless gear. I have hardwired the 801's and have been satisfied with how they sound. No question, if cost and size were no object, I'd go with the Sanken COS-11's every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karri Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Does anyone have windshield suggestions for TL-40s? I've been using the clips and foams that came with the OST set deal. The foams are otherwise fine but just a tad loose so they tend to come off, especially when a talent removes the mic+Tx themselves, the foam gets easily buried inside their clothes. A tip - if you own any Rode Lavaliers, the furries that come with those fit the TL40s just fine. I received six TL40s a while ago and have happily been using them on ENG type work on reality shows. One mic however seems to be way less bright than the others, I'm going to have to do some testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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