pvanstry Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I have been thinking about swapping my 788/CL8 kit for a 664 unit lately. The idea of new tech, more possible input/track ( using the CL6 ) and the fact that i could sell my current kit for around 6k$ and buy a 664 for 4k$ was really tempting. BUT... Yesterday, i was shooting a reality type shoot using my kit and decided to try using the 788 without the CL8. When the CL8 is disconnected, you can still have all the advantage of the mixer system by deciding to use the front trim control to become Faders instead. You then can adjust trim on each individual input by selecting the input ( PFL switch ) and use the rotary encoder ( on the right side of the 788 ) to adjust the trim of that input. Assigning LR, Track and X1 X2 assign is fairly easy thing to do so i was not thinking too much of that. But having to select and then bring my left hand ( my right being on the boom ) and contort it to adjust the trim on the input was not really practical. BUT... A little bit of thinking and some brainstorming with my friend Chris at Trew Toronto, brought a solution. You can assign the rotary encoder up and down function to two separate GPIO input and build a very small dual momentary push button to mimic the rotary encoder up and down function. That little box can be placed anywhere on your bag and then it becomes very easy to adjust trim by simply PFL the input and adjusting the trim with the button. BUT WHY... Well if you think about it, after seing a picture of the 664/CL6 next to a 788/CL8, the first is huge. Alsowhen you remove the CL8, you subtract almost 1 pound ( 1 less then a single 664 with no CL6 ), and you bring the weight closer to you. You also keep the possibility of the CL9 panel, INternal drive, adjustable output level ( continuously variable not just fixed value ). Think of a 788 with 4 SRa bag vs a 664/CL6 with 4 SRA bag, that's quite a difference.... Food for tought here.... Pascal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 " I have been thinking about swapping my 788/CL8 kit for a 664 unit lately. " an individual (aka personal) and subjective choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Holy crap the 664 is huge! An they think that's intended for bag use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I agree... But imagine the size of the bag.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpiegari Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Only weighs half a pound more than 552. I hope I don't find myself tracking 12 receivers with that around my neck... I DO like that I will have a somewhat reasonable (4-5) number of inputs on full size XLR, with individual trims, PLF, and faders and better metering. It always frustrates me on the 788t/CL8 that I have to look for info and make adjustments to a path in 4 different locations. It's difficult to think of either/or being a one for all approach. I do perhaps see an end to my 552/744t combo though. Glen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 There is always a snag. LOL! Nothing's perfect. Pascal, Hold on to the 788T, buy the 664 and keep both. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Three things that were huge for me were lack of returns on the 788 and it is very power hungry. It "seems" like the 664 requires less power but we'll see. I also didn't like metering and menu screen on the 788. I'm glad they combined them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 The 664 is better because it 1) is black, and therefore cooler looking, 2) has more of those dial-fader thingies and they look awesome, 3) has a screen with color things shooting back and forth and 4) is black, and therefore cooler looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 jeez that is mammoth. i'm looking forward to 788s becoming more available on the used market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefilosa Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I hope I don't find myself tracking 12 receivers with that around my neck.. If one asks for it, they will come! MF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpiegari Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Folks that complain about the size/weight of a 664 never shouldered a Nagra 4.2 (its 12 D cells at 2lbs) only to mix 2 inputs to one track. I've dreamed of a 664 for well over a decade and it's still smaller, lighter, and more capable than I ever would have thought possible. Glen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 The 664 is better because it 1) is black, and therefore cooler looking, 2) has more of those dial-fader thingies and they look awesome, 3) has a screen with color things shooting back and forth and 4) is black, and therefore cooler looking. LOTD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpiegari Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Pascal's comparison photo is not really to scale: Each machine is sitting on a table, so the 788t/CL8 (being a few inches shorter) is further from the lens. Glen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Pascal this sounds great: >>A little bit of thinking and some brainstorming with my friend Chris at Trew Toronto, brought a solution. You can assign the rotary encoder up and down function to two separate GPIO input and build a very small dual momentary push button to mimic the rotary encoder up and down function. That little box can be placed anywhere on your bag and then it becomes very easy to adjust trim by simply PFL the input and adjusting the trim with the button.<<<< ...but what is a GPIO input? Where does your up/down box plug in? Is there any more to the box that the momentary buttons? thanks philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Ostroff Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I'm genuinely surprised that most of the reaction to the size has been that of shock. It is about 1 1/2" wider than a 552. Given it had one more channel and the screen, not THAT much considering. I know some (myself included) thought the 552 Ch 1 controls were cramped, any smaller/thinner I think there would be the same problem with the 664. Still think the 788 and 664 are hard to compare given the features. Different purposes filled by each IMHO. Good to have options! (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Although there are some great features for the price with the 664, I dont think I could ever trade in my 788T/CL-8 for something like that. The fact that it is black means that it will probably get pretty hot out in the sun, and I was just shooting this weekend in the Arizona desert where it was well over 100 degrees f. My 788T actually ran cool the entire time. The bozos that put that project together had the camera dept using DSLRs, which of course overheated every five minutes and made us wast a lot of time, and cost us some footage. The lack of an internal hard drive kills it for me though. I do a lot of projects where there is no time to dump the audio, and I have to go for weeks keeping it all on my hard drive. I know there is a 256 GB CF card out there, but I like having my hard drive in there, and using the CF drive for redundant recording. Makes me feel better. The colour screen is cool, but my 788Ts screen gets scratched up pretty bad and I have to replace it every so often. Is that possible on the 664? Last but not least, I really hope everyone doesnt start bringing 664s on set everywhere with 12 wireless letting production walk all over them and expect them to provide that for a small insulting rate. Im already seeing job posts where they want 8-10 people wearing lavs and they expect you to boom, all for pennies of what they should be paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I would love to see a picture of the 664 against the 552. Much more relevant comparison for field mixers IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Ostroff Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 There are a bunch of pictures on Trew Audio's FB page including 552/664, screen in daylight, etc. from their visit with SD today: www.facebook.com/trewaudio (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpiegari Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I agree and I'm slightly concerned about cards and card management. I've never had any CF issue recording to name brand high-speed cards. Yeah, the expensive ones. If I'm handing cards over, I will often copy to a cheaper (and slower) card that can hold the minimum data, but not the speed. I don't care if it takes them another 10 minutes to copy, I DO care that I only handed off $16 card instead of a $150 card. I'd like to continue this practice with the 664 WITHOUT needing a laptop. Not sure if it will copy across media slots. I suppose a Nexto drive is in my future. http://www.nextodi.com/product/en_nvs1501.html Glen The lack of an internal hard drive kills it for me though. I do a lot of projects where there is no time to dump the audio, and I have to go for weeks keeping it all on my hard drive. I know there is a 256 GB CF card out there, but I like having my hard drive in there, and using the CF drive for redundant recording. Makes me feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Futterman Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I wouldn't mind a photo comparing the 664 to Nomad seeing as that comparison will be discussed ad nauseam in the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I would love to see a picture of the 664 against the 552. Much more relevant comparison for field mixers IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Philip, the GPIO input is the same input for the AES IO connector. Basically the DB?? At the base of the 788. It as 4 switch closure contact. You only need to wire a switch that will short the pin for each logic switch to a common ground. Then in the software ou can program that action to act like any other button on the machine or actual action ( remote roll, opening menus, jam sync etc... ). You program it exactly like you program te keyboard shortcut on the 788. Pretty powerful. Pascal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Glen, point well taken about the photo angles and distance. Would be curious to see the difference with both units aligned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Thanks Jack! Yes, it's a beast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Glen, point well taken about the photo angles and distance. Would be curious to see the difference with both units aligned. Perhaps one of the dealers can stack a 664, 552, and a Nomad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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