Sanken COS 11 RM-11 Frequency Adjustment

[rb1138]

Hey all,

I was lurking around on r.a.m.p.s. and I found some posts about this

http://sanken.ch/english/det2-11.htm

Thought it was strange but I don't think this chart was inside my sanken case when I bought them (brand new).

Is it the way there are borders/edges are creating a Helmholz resonator? Seems like a neat way to boost HF.

Can this be done in some way with other microphones? Or figuring out ways to take advantage of this property of sound even more so in other cases. I actually didn't think Sanken could do this until I found this on r.a.m.p.s.

I feel like I could use some HF boost in the collar or up at the neck (or buried in a sweater or something). I usually use hush lavs in tie knots. I assume a hush lav doesn't offer the same HF benefit. I might try a different set-up now with the RM-11 mount, taking advantage of this HF boost.

Sawrab

[Marc Wielage]

I think a Helmholtz resonator generally refers to low-frequency issues in engine design and architecture:

http://en.wikipedia....holtz_resonator

The issue with boosting HF with a poorly-mounted lav is that this will also EQ the clothing noise and room noise around it. I'm generally reluctant to do much EQ on-set, assuming that the dialogue editor or re-recording mixer is better equipped to make those decisions later on. I do try to make sure the various lavs used in a scene match each other more or less. If I did have to EQ it, I'd opt to use EQ in an outboard mixer, but typically for me this is done for LF roll-off, not boosting the high end.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Marc Wielage

[Erkal Taskin]

So the deeper you push the capsule within the RM11 the more you boost the highend? Doesnt make sense because what about clothing? You hide it under fabric and the highs are already gone, so whats there to boost? Maybe if it was out in the open?

[rb1138]

The issue with boosting HF with a poorly-mounted lav is that this will also EQ the clothing noise and room noise around it. I'm generally reluctant to do much EQ on-set, assuming that the dialogue editor or EQ editor is better equipped to make those decisions later on. I do try to make sure the various lavs used in a scene match each other more or less. If I did have to EQ it, I'd opt to use EQ in an outboard mixer, but typically for me this is done for LF roll-off, not boosting the high end.

Sankens sound a little funky in collars. I think...this is because of HF loss? Many have said on the forum that post likes a "brighter" lav versus a dull one. I figure anything can help. I don't really want to use the "effects" on my recorder. Of course, I don't want to put the microphone in the collar, but sometimes because of location noise, clothing noise, and chest hair I might have to.

So the deeper you push the capsule within the RM11 the more you boost the highend? Doesnt make sense because what about clothing? You hide it under fabric and the highs are already gone, so whats there to boost? Maybe if it was out in the open?

Isn't clothing noise a LF thing? I'm just asking. Would it still get boosted? I figure you'd expose the end of the RM-11 in some way to let some air in.

Sawrab

[studiomprd]

" Isn't clothing noise a LF thing? "

some is, some isn't...

" Would it still get boosted? "

probably...

[Guest Taskin]

I thought clothing noise was LF stuff?

Sankens sound a little funky in collars. I think...this is because of HF loss? Many have said on the forum that post likes a "brighter" lav versus a dull one. I figure anything can help. I don't really want to use the "effects" on my recorder. Of course, I don't want to put the microphone in the collar, but sometimes because of location noise, clothing noise, and chest hair I might have to.

Isn't clothing noise a LF thing? I'm just asking. Would it still get boosted? I figure you'd expose the end of the RM-11 in some way to let some air in.

Sawrab

What I meant about the clothes was that, once you cover the capsule with fabric you loose a lot of the high end anyway, not because of the noise, but because it physically blocks it, so I do not see how the above trick could be of any use. A little bit of air helps, but still not quite the same.

On the other hand, just like what the Senator says, I think clothes noise would probably cover a wider range than just "high" or "low".

[rb1138]

What I meant about the clothes was that, once you cover the capsule with fabric you loose a lot of the high end anyway, not because of the noise, but because it physically blocks it, so I do not see how the above trick could be of any use. A little bit of air helps, but still not quite the same.

On the other hand, just like what the Senator says, I think clothes noise would probably cover a wider range than just "high" or "low".

I didn't think about that. Don't people use trams in "facing vampire clip" orientation and "facing away" orientations? What artifacts/problems happen as a result of that? Or is it a superior design for this kind of thing?

(note I put "tram" in the tags too, since this concept seems to come from the way people use that microphone. Thought it was relevant.)

Sawrab

[studiomprd]

" Don't people use trams in "facing vampire clip" orientation and "facing away" orientations? "

yes...

" What artifacts/problems happen as a result of that? "

generally, none that I've noticed, but I like to put a bit of foam w/s in between using the facing toward configuration...

" Or is it a superior design for this kind of thing? "

OK, sure...

[rb1138]

" What artifacts/problems happen as a result of that? "

generally, none that I've noticed, but I like to put a bit of foam w/s in between using the facing toward configuration...resonant cavity hf boost

What does "w/s" mean just to make sure?

" Or is it a superior design for this kind of thing? "

OK, sure...

Ken Stone said this in those tests he did on his site, that Trams are better up at the collar and buried under clothing. Since I don't own them, I guess I've been trying to figure out how to get some HF boost with the COS-11s.

Sawrab

[studiomprd]

" What does "w/s" "

wind screen