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664 vs. Nomad Lite


Twade

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SD units do tend to sell easier on the used market. Again, Zaxcom is usually pushing the boundaries of the paradigm and offering great features that can sometimes offer complications people don't want to try to understand. IMO

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Nomad seems to be the more flexible machine in terms of input to output routing. The benefits of Zaxnet are also a factor.

Sound Devices user manuals are comprehensive, easy to read, and organized. Zaxcom's user manuals are just not on the same level. Just my opinion. Also, they do not bother updating them with software changes, which are frequent. This leaves many of the newly added features undocumented. I find this unacceptable. Also, it only adds to Zaxcom's reputation for making devices that are "too complicated" or user-unfriendly. It's a shame because this is not really accurate, but I've met soo many "eng" mixers who won't touch zaxcom stuff due to mostly rumor mill reliability and complicated interface issues. I remember one mixer saying "yeah the zaxcom stuff is cool but you have to be an electrical engineer to figure it out!".

It's a serious concern I wish they would address. It's really in their best interest.

The you tube videos are nice but when I'm on a job and need THE answer to a question there is no time to browse through videos online. It needs to be in the manual.

I agree. They should update their manuals.

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Question... and this is a toughie... Which SOUNDS better?

Twade, can you do a side by side recording? Take the same mic source into both recorders at the same time, and post it up for us to hear! Even more fun would be to make it a blind test.. don't tell us which recorder it us, just see who prefers which sound. Then tell us. Whichever one I like the sound of more, i'll go buy it. The logistics in both are more than good enough to work with on a day to day basis.

~Mark.

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SD units do tend to sell easier on the used market. Again, Zaxcom is usually pushing the boundaries of the paradigm and offering great features that can sometimes offer complications people don't want to try to understand. IMO

I dont understand how you come to that conclusion especially if we are talking about wireless.

I have been trying to unload my Lectros for a while. I bet you if I was selling zaxcom it would have been a different story.

As far as recorders I have not seen that many Zaxcom foe sale.

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I dont understand how you come to that conclusion especially if we are talking about wireless.

I have been trying to unload my Lectros for a while. I bet you if I was selling zaxcom it would have been a different story.

As far as recorders I have not seen that many Zaxcom foe sale.

Yes, we aren't talking about wireless.

The SD units are in more supply and in more demand both in new and in used. SD appeals to more markets, has more capacity and more marketing.

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there was a SD 788t with cl8 for $5200. I dont see how you come to the conclusion that sd has better resale value.

You were talking about the resale of 744s. 788s weren't mentioned. The sale of a recorder after it has earned out is all gravy, so the comparison to someone selling a Nomad doesn't fly at all--it's too new to have earned out for most users. When they sell after having been used as much as those 788s and 744s have been worked then we'll see what the resale value is. Otherwise, why do you care? Are you selling your Nomad?

philp

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While I'm harping on the Zaxcom user manuals, another pet peeve occurred to me..

I really, really, wish Zaxcom would author an individual user manual for each product. As it is now they lump ALL their wireless products into one behemoth user guide that is hard to navigate and easy to forget if the info you're reading at any given point applies to your unit or some other product or both...

Even if it means there is a lot of redundant info across the manuals I would much prefer to have a dedicated manual for each unit. Zaxnet should have it's own manual as well, at least an overview guide with a capabilities and product compatibilities chart.

I love the Zaxcom products I own but the documentation has always left me disappointed.

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One more thing to mention: Nomad you can delay the inputs (to match digital sources vs analog) on the 664 you will never be able to do this, in terms of your output mix. Jon did mention the possibility of being able to do this for the recorded tracks (and I can only assume this is the ISO tracks only, not the mix or aux tracks), but food for thought.

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One more thing to mention: Nomad you can delay the inputs (to match digital sources vs analog) on the 664 you will never be able to do this, in terms of your output mix. Jon did mention the possibility of being able to do this for the recorded tracks (and I can only assume this is the ISO tracks only, not the mix or aux tracks), but food for thought.

Never?

Paul Isaacs in thread "What would you ask Sound Devices?" in response to question -

'When using digital mics have the analog inputs got variable delay to enable them to be matched to the digital mic delay, like on the 788T?'

Answered -

'Not yet. We're thinking about adding it.'

Technical Development Manager

Sound Devices LLC

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Question... and this is a toughie... Which SOUNDS better?

Twade, can you do a side by side recording? Take the same mic source into both recorders at the same time, and post it up for us to hear! Even more fun would be to make it a blind test.. don't tell us which recorder it us, just see who prefers which sound. Then tell us. Whichever one I like the sound of more, i'll go buy it. The logistics in both are more than good enough to work with on a day to day basis.

~Mark.

The sonic quality of the two machines is going to be the most similar thing about them, if not, for all practical purposes, identical. But from an operational point of view, they are quite different. The main differences could probably be summed up to be familiarity and simplicity vs. DSP driven versatility. Both have their place and both have their fans. DSP (computer driven, digital control) based equipment is definitely what we can expect more of in the future, in sound gear as well as everything else (everything in new cars is a computer control, from the stereo system to the gas pedal). So, while the Nomad may represent more of what equipment will become in the future, Sound Devices, based on the response we have seen for the 664, definitely struck a nerve in the way a large part of the market wants to work in the present.

I think all can agree that we're fortunate to have these different but very good options to choose from.

GlenTrew

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As a Nomad user who attended Gotham's demo of the unit, I'll post my observations here.

Nomad's card routing is far more flexible. 664 has 4 dedicated mix tracks that you can configure to your heart's content, but 6 dedicated ISO tracks that only correspond to their associated input. All of the Nomad's tracks are infinitely configurable so you could have 4 mix and 6 ISOs, or 9 mix tracks and 1 ISO (though I'm not sure why you'd want that, but you have the option).

664 without the CL-6 has 6 direct outputs for each input, which Nomad does not. Though could configure any of the Nomad's 6 balanced output busses to route individual inputs prefade if you wanted to. It seems the 664 was built more with the option of sending the ISOs to another recorder as well as mix outs to camera. Both recorders feature a plethora of output busses, so configuring your various camera sends shouldn't be an issue on either machine.

664 has analogue variable High-Pass Filters, while Nomad's are digital. Nomad also has 2 variable notch filters per input. I will say that having a pot is faster than pressing the Setup Button, the corresponding input and then selecting the HPF option.

664 has variable pans while Nomad has hard pans. 664 has dedicated trim pots while Nomad has the Autotrim feature. Once you get used to Autotrim, there doesn't seem to be any advantage to dedicated trim pots. Though I'm sure people who are used to working with SD recorders will find that a welcome feature of the 664.

Nomad's faders and trims are all digital while 664s are analogue. In practical terms, 664's faders and trims are hardwired to their corresponding outputs while Nomad's are infinitely configurable. You can set Fader one on your Nomad to control the fade on inputs 1, 3, and 5 if you wanted and input 2 could be set to control the trim on and input. By default, Nomad's faders are routed to their associated inputs so as long as you don't change those settings, there is no chance for operator error. Personally, I have not encountered a need for this feature, but it's there and worth mentioning.

From my eye, the screen on the 664 is slightly bigger. The menu on the 664 seemed pretty intuitive, as is the menu on the Nomad. However, I'd give the 664 points with their metadata management. There are more options with the current software than there are with the current Nomad software, namely circling takes and having changes instantly reflected on both cards after recording. On Nomad, that process is currently a bit roundabout, basically disabling mirroring then setting the Start Segment back to whatever one you made changes on, then re-enabling mirroring. 664 also has preset notes for metadata already built in. I know that Howy has been working on that with future Nomad software, but I can't compare what I haven't seen, so for now I'd give points to SD in the metadata department. The one advantage Nomad has there is that when you hold menu, you can scroll the keyboard vertically instead of horizontally. 664 is stuck with horizontal keyboard scrolling.

Enabling tracks in Nomad involves enabling the record tracks in the Main Menu, then going into the Bus Routing Menu and configuring your tracks. Tracks that are not enabled on Nomad have a line through them on the Card Metering screen. On 664, you have to arm the tracks and then configure which tracks are routed to which cards. However, the 664 screen only indicates which tracks are ARMED, not what is being recorded to each card. That increases the likelihood of operator error, and 664 users need to be vigilant about checking those settings. Also, I'd argue Nomad users need to be vigilant about checking their Routing in the Bus menu as that is one area very susceptible to operator error.

Both units have robust headphone monitoring options and infinitely configurable presets. Changing monitoring on Nomad (once the settings are configured) involves pressing the Back/Headphone button repeatedly until you get to the right one. On 664, you press the HP button and scroll to the appropriate choice.

Nomad's meters are dBFS scale, 664's are dBu.

Nomad is about a pound lighter and slightly smaller.

664 has the inputs on the side, Nomad recessed in the back. 664's solution I'd consider an advantage if you have to swap cables constantly, whereas Nomad's saves a lot of bag space.

Nomad records to dual CF cards, one in the MARF system and one in bwavs. 664 records to one CF and one SD card, both in either bwav or MP3 files. 664's file management system is more sophisticated in that you can edit and delete individual files on either card. On Nomad, you can decide what gets mirrored on each card, overwrite files if you change metadata or mirror track count, and format the card.

664 has AES in and outputs. Nomad Lite does not, but 10 and 12 do (for more money of course).

Nomad has the visual slate, which is VERY useful for run and gun situations.

Nomad can record up to 96khz Sample rate, 664 48.08khz.

You can plug a Mix-8 into Nomad. There is no announced linear fader option for 664.

Recording on the Nomad (assuming you are using default settings) involves holding the TC button for one second. 664 has the joystick similar to the 552, though you get a nice big button if you purchase the CL-6

664 can have the CL-6 added on which adds 6 line level inputs on Ta3 and enables up to 16 tracks (4 mix, 12 ISOs), as well as the aforementioned big record button and LED meters for the mix track.

Nomad Lite can be upgraded to the Nomad 10 which enables AES and built in Zaxnet and IFB. It can be further upgraded to the 12 for 12 tracks.

Upcoming features of the Nomad include Automix, USB and MicroSD recording, MP3 recording, better metadata management and keyboard support for the Nomad 12 (and 8 ). 664 has keyboard support right out of the factory.

I think I got all the major feature differences between the two units. I'd conclude that both machines are excellent and will find many happy users.

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As a Nomad user who attended Gotham's demo of the unit, I'll post my observations here.

....... snip .....

Thanks Max for posting all that concise information,very helpful.

One thing I thought of - 664 has Auto record with Hold Off - 5 second pre-roll (initially?)

Does Nomad have Auto-load?

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As a Nomad user who attended Gotham's demo of the unit, I'll post my observations here.

Nomad's card routing is far more flexible. 664 has 4 dedicated mix tracks that you can configure to your heart's content, but 6 dedicated ISO tracks that only correspond to their associated input. All of the Nomad's tracks are infinitely configurable so you could have 4 mix and 6 ISOs, or 9 mix tracks and 1 ISO (though I'm not sure why you'd want that, but you have the option).

664 without the CL-6 has 6 direct outputs for each input, which Nomad does not. Though could configure any of the Nomad's 6 balanced output busses to route individual inputs prefade if you wanted to. It seems the 664 was built more with the option of sending the ISOs to another recorder as well as mix outs to camera. Both recorders feature a plethora of output busses, so configuring your various camera sends shouldn't be an issue on either machine.

664 has analogue variable High-Pass Filters, while Nomad's are digital. Nomad also has 2 variable notch filters per input. I will say that having a pot is faster than pressing the Setup Button, the corresponding input and then selecting the HPF option.

664 has variable pans while Nomad has hard pans. 664 has dedicated trim pots while Nomad has the Autotrim feature. Once you get used to Autotrim, there doesn't seem to be any advantage to dedicated trim pots. Though I'm sure people who are used to working with SD recorders will find that a welcome feature of the 664.

Nomad's faders and trims are all digital while 664s are analogue. In practical terms, 664's faders and trims are hardwired to their corresponding outputs while Nomad's are infinitely configurable. You can set Fader one on your Nomad to control the fade on inputs 1, 3, and 5 if you wanted and input 2 could be set to control the trim on and input. By default, Nomad's faders are routed to their associated inputs so as long as you don't change those settings, there is no chance for operator error. Personally, I have not encountered a need for this feature, but it's there and worth mentioning.

From my eye, the screen on the 664 is slightly bigger. The menu on the 664 seemed pretty intuitive, as is the menu on the Nomad. However, I'd give the 664 points with their metadata management. There are more options with the current software than there are with the current Nomad software, namely circling takes and having changes instantly reflected on both cards after recording. On Nomad, that process is currently a bit roundabout, basically disabling mirroring then setting the Start Segment back to whatever one you made changes on, then re-enabling mirroring. 664 also has preset notes for metadata already built in. I know that Howy has been working on that with future Nomad software, but I can't compare what I haven't seen, so for now I'd give points to SD in the metadata department. The one advantage Nomad has there is that when you hold menu, you can scroll the keyboard vertically instead of horizontally. 664 is stuck with horizontal keyboard scrolling.

Enabling tracks in Nomad involves enabling the record tracks in the Main Menu, then going into the Bus Routing Menu and configuring your tracks. Tracks that are not enabled on Nomad have a line through them on the Card Metering screen. On 664, you have to arm the tracks and then configure which tracks are routed to which cards. However, the 664 screen only indicates which tracks are ARMED, not what is being recorded to each card. That increases the likelihood of operator error, and 664 users need to be vigilant about checking those settings. Also, I'd argue Nomad users need to be vigilant about checking their Routing in the Bus menu as that is one area very susceptible to operator error.

Both units have robust headphone monitoring options and infinitely configurable presets. Changing monitoring on Nomad (once the settings are configured) involves pressing the Back/Headphone button repeatedly until you get to the right one. On 664, you press the HP button and scroll to the appropriate choice.

Nomad's meters are dBFS scale, 664's are dBu.

Nomad is about a pound lighter and slightly smaller.

664 has the inputs on the side, Nomad recessed in the back. 664's solution I'd consider an advantage if you have to swap cables constantly, whereas Nomad's saves a lot of bag space.

Nomad records to dual CF cards, one in the MARF system and one in bwavs. 664 records to one CF and one SD card, both in either bwav or MP3 files. 664's file management system is more sophisticated in that you can edit and delete individual files on either card. On Nomad, you can decide what gets mirrored on each card, overwrite files if you change metadata or mirror track count, and format the card.

664 has AES in and outputs. Nomad Lite does not, but 10 and 12 do (for more money of course).

Nomad has the visual slate, which is VERY useful for run and gun situations.

Nomad can record up to 96khz Sample rate, 664 48.08khz.

You can plug a Mix-8 into Nomad. There is no announced linear fader option for 664.

Recording on the Nomad (assuming you are using default settings) involves holding the TC button for one second. 664 has the joystick similar to the 552, though you get a nice big button if you purchase the CL-6

664 can have the CL-6 added on which adds 6 line level inputs on Ta3 and enables up to 16 tracks (4 mix, 12 ISOs), as well as the aforementioned big record button and LED meters for the mix track.

Nomad Lite can be upgraded to the Nomad 10 which enables AES and built in Zaxnet and IFB. It can be further upgraded to the 12 for 12 tracks.

Upcoming features of the Nomad include Automix, USB and MicroSD recording, MP3 recording, better metadata management and keyboard support for the Nomad 12 (and 8 ). 664 has keyboard support right out of the factory.

I think I got all the major feature differences between the two units. I'd conclude that both machines are excellent and will find many happy users.

great post.

About the high pass filters.

usually i would like to have my filters before the AD.

In the nomad case it does not make any difference.

the extra headroom from noclip more then insures signal chain free of digital clips.

If there is one major difference between the two it is the no clip in the nomad.

Since I go my Nomad I have not used limiters on the inputs and have to say my mixing has improved a lot.

I never worry about input clips. when i used sd gear i constantly had to worry about using to much limiting.

with zaxcom this problem does not exists...

If they only implement it in their wireless txs...

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Nomad uses two different high pass filters. A hardware filter before the A-D converter and a software variable filter after the A-D. The hardware filter prevents low frequencies from clipping the A-D converter while the software filter provides a variable cutoff frequency.

Glenn

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