Jeff Wexler Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 The Zaxcom website now has a fairly extensive explanation of NeverClip technology as is used in Nomad recorders. It's a good read and there is an audio file demo posted that demonstrates the extended dynamic range provided by NeverClip technology. NeverClip Explained NeverClip Demo (audio) Even though I put both links here, I would suggest for anyone who is still not sure what NeverClip is, should do the reading first before listening to the demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Thanks JW! Off to read and listen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Interesting demo and convincing regarding Never Clip. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I understand the technology, but until we have Neverclip in wireless microphone technology, I think it's practicality is limited except in hardwire situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srgtfury Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I understand the technology, but until we have Neverclip in wireless microphone technology, I think it's practicality is limited except in hardwire situations. Wasn't that proposed to quickly follow Nomad 4.0's release (which was today)? No hardware mods required, as we recall, to 900LA's, for example. Thank you very much Fury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 And you're welcome very much! We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I understand the technology, but until we have Neverclip in wireless microphone technology, I think it's practicality is limited except in hardwire situations. The TRX742 plugon transmitter has NeverClip. I read the article but I still don't understand what it is doing to the signal. Does it automagically shift the gain structure? Does it mean I can leave the gain turned all the way up or down and still capture the entire dynamic range? Does the Nomad's input meters show the entire 137 db range NeverClip provides? What reference do I use to set my gains? Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I beleive most newly designed gear from Zaxcom will feature Neverclip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I understand the technology, but until we have Neverclip in <i>wireless</i> microphone technology, I think it's practicality is limited except in hardwire situations. Neverclip is included in the trx742 already, and glenn told me a few months ago that activating neverclip on a trx900la would be a software update, not a hardware mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 'The transmitters cannot transmit a signal over 0dBFS, so it has to compress it. It sounds very sweet.' - Glenn Sanders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Then that will work! I look forward to hearing a demo someday. That could be an extremely useful feature -- having to readjust the input trim on screaming actors is never fun (even when doing it by remote). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Then that will work! I look forward to hearing a demo someday. That could be an extremely useful feature -- having to readjust the input trim on screaming actors is never fun (even when doing it by remote). I don't see how it's different to a normal transmitter, with a limiter. What's the benefit of having two 2 A/D converters to provide a non limited signal above 0dB if it has to compress it to at or below 0dB anyway. Either that, or NeverClip in the TRX's is not dual A/D and is just a normal (perhaps look-ahead) limiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I don't see how it's different to a normal transmitter, with a limiter. What's the benefit of having two 2 A/D converters to provide a non limited signal above 0dB if it has to compress it to at or below 0dB anyway. Either that, or NeverClip in the TRX's is not dual A/D and is just a normal (perhaps look-ahead) limiter. The entire point of neverclip is to avoid using limiters. If the digital transmission is 24 bit, then neverclip at the transmitter could provide the same 137db of dynamic range that the nomad inputs provide, and avoid using a limiter. Wandering Ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 The entire point of neverclip is to avoid using limiters. If the digital transmission is 24 bit, then neverclip at the transmitter could provide the same 137db of dynamic range that the nomad inputs provide, and avoid using a limiter. Wandering Ear The definition of NeverClip in Nomad is 2 A/D converters that CAN produce an output above digital zero, so that input limiters are unnecessary. This 'digital excess' must be dealt with in Nomad by either compression, or fader gain reduction. The new NeverClip ISO changes the headroom and fills the 4 LSB of the digital file with sound - basically attenuation (but such that your noise floor is also reduced/replaced with useable info) When asked how NeverClip in the TRX742 works, Glenn replied that as the transmitter cannot transmit a signal above 0dBFS, that signal must be COMPRESSED. That is to say it is limited below 0dBFS. Thaf is not the same as what happens during the creation of a NeverClip ISO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Neverclip is included in the trx742 already, and glenn told me a few months ago that activating neverclip on a trx900la would be a software update, not a hardware mod. Even if there are already 2 A/D converters inside a TRX900LA (or it is stereo capable and can be repurposed) I don't see this being the same as Nomad NeverClip either for the reasons stated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Neverclip is included in the trx742 already, and glenn told me a few months ago that activating neverclip on a trx900la would be a software update, not a hardware mod. Great news. if this happens my system will be 100% perfect... But it is not going to work with my trx900las... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 But it is not going to work with my trx900las... Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Well I don't care that much about how it all works, as long as it works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campion Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 So just to clarify, in the audio sample the reason there's so much less background noise in the neverclip track is simply because its reassigned the 5 least significant bits into headroom bits instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 When asked how NeverClip in the TRX742 works, Glenn replied that as the transmitter cannot transmit a signal above 0dBFS, that signal must be COMPRESSED. That is to say it is limited below 0dBFS. Thaf is not the same as what happens during the creation of a NeverClip ISO. Well that kind of defeats the point of having neverclip in a tx, except they can use look ahead compressors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 So just to clarify, in the audio sample the reason there's so much less background noise in the neverclip track is simply because its reassigned the 5 least significant bits into headroom bits instead? You are hearing the full dynamic range of the audio uncompressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campion Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 You are hearing the full dynamic range of the audio uncompressed. The full dynamic range would include the background noise though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I am a little confused about setting the ISO gain for NeverClip. Will 0 dBFS on my Nomad meter on the ISO be -20dBFS when I open the file on a DAW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EARS Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Is there any way to put neverclip into the Deva? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 The full dynamic range would include the background noise though Someone added background noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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