berniebeaudry Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Looking to spend some money before the end of the year and I'm conflicted. I have four Countryman B6 lavs wired for lectro. Two have hard wire adaptors available. I have an SD 302 mixer along with a Schoeps CMIT-5U shotgun and a Peluso CMEC-6 hyper cardiod mic. I don't own any wireless units and I use the production company's or rent. I like the B-6s but they are not suitable for every occasion. Here's the issue: Do I buy one good used lectro tx/rx (211 or better), or do I get some more lav choices? I'm thinking Sonotrims, Sankens, or DPAs. I'm very familiar with the Sonotrims (l like them better than Trams), and I've used the DPAs in a studio situation but not hidden. I tried the Sankens a long time ago but had issues hiding them, but that was fifteen years or more ago. Much of what I do requires hiding the mics. Of the mics I've mentioned which would you go for and why? And/or should I start getting some wireless gear, even though I may be able to afford just one so far? I've been doing location sound for a long time, but I find getting opinions from other experienced people is invaluable. Thanks all in advance for your opinions. Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold F. Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 I imagine this calls for one of those "do whatever works best for the type of work you do" answers so I'll just tell you how I approached this question when it arose for me without knowing what kind of projects you work on. When I was needed wireless and could only afford one I was also unsure how useful one wireless system would be, so I bought two Sennheiser G2 systems (and replaced the lavs). The are not as good as Lectros but have their place and, even though I now own two Lectros as well, I still use them when appropriate. On the other hand, while the utility of only one wireless system could be debated, I'm sure you'd find a use for it should you buy a Lectro and, for the time being, have just one system. I used just one all day yesterday. Spending less on rentals or even getting rental income on a wireless system is great as well. Arnold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmassey Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 The new Sanken COS-11 is a better much performer. Now this comes from several fellow soundtypes who have purchased them and put them into daily use. I have not heard them myself, but trust the ears and opinions of my cohorts!!! I second the G2 purchase. They have their time and place. A buddy who mixes commercials and movies needed to do a thing with 10 folks on wireless...bought the G2's and was very happy how they sounded for this one time use. He sold most of them, as they don't sound as good as his Lectro's, but kept a couple for weird situations. Much like some keep an Oktava for when the Schoeps might never come back alive. cleve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 I would personally purchase one item of quality rather than two of lesser quality. G2's are not diversity, meaning you get less range and i have personally used them use them against a Lectro 411 and even the director asked me what was wrong with the lav... No bad intent meant they are simply not the same quality. Try calling Professional sound in New York or Location sound in LA. They have rental units for sale that are very good will do the job for a fraction of the original price. My 2 cents. Pascal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 With wireless you get what you paid for, but usually don't find out exactly how much you paid for until you get into nasty situations on location. With all the current interference and coming brouhaha in the UHF band this isn't a great time to lowball on wireless. I think I'd keep renting if I couldn't get the good stuff. With rentals, at least, you have plausible deniability. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmassey Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Yes, good point. But I have had my 411A/UM400A systems not work when the going got tough also. Bad spot for RF or whatever, but no matter of retuning would find a clear spot. Out came the 195's and all was right with the world. For what they are the G2 systems are a very good value. I only use them with a B6 if I use them. They are my wireless send system to the small handheld video cameras when the shoot calls for that. Of course a backup recording is being made all the time. I agree with Philip that continuing to rent is a good idea. Purchasing different lavs also. You can never have too many mics or options. cleve BTW...I tire easily of the RANGE factor in wireless mics. If I buy a wireless mic it is for the sound quality, not whether I can hear it thru 5ft. of steel and concrete. Even in the most hurried of setups, I can take the receiver and attach 50-100ft. of cable and get it closer to the action. With the above, the 195's are not diversity and they worked when the new stuff would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Try not to skimp on a piece of equipment you depend on for your livelihood... If you can't afford to buy an item, then rent the best equipment you can until you can afford it. Quality wireless units I depend on for my life.... They are in my opinion a must for ANY real sound person... With more and more multi cam shoots and more and more shitty locations, they are many times the only game in town... I use them religiously... and even a wireless boom 90% of the time.... Get one and take good care of it.... soon you will have two and so on..... start now and dive in. If you think I like spending thousands on gear, your wrong, but thats the game we're in.... jump in, the waters great. Second that on the Professional Sound services out of NY.... Rich and his staff are Awesome.... Always great prices, always great service, and if you need cables made.... this is the place.... As for the Lavs, I use the new COS-11 Sankens and they kick ass..... Sound good, small, and reasonably stout in construction.... It is my "A" choice for lavs.... hiding them is really easy with some transpore or 20 other ways.... pretty small units... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 I too have had major troubles with range on my 411s. It stunned me when I ran the receiver out to about 5 feet from the actress (Susan Sarandon) and had constant hits! This was block 21 (indoor scene with the spectrum analyzer telling me there was NOTHING on that channel as I stared at it for several minutes), and I swapped it out for block 26 and it was only slightly better. I've tried block 27, 28, & 29 and man they ALL gave me troubles. BIG troubles. This was in New York and also Baton Rouge. (I used the Sennheiser's site for what freqs to avoid, too.) However my 205s and 190s are solid and have great range and are far more reliable, though those 190s are too noisy to use for anything indoors. I don't get it. Can't wait to get some Zaxcoms. As an end note I got the PSC antenna booster with 2 sharkfins and this has completely ended my range troubles, but I'm screwed if I have to come off the cart and use those little BNC antennas. As far as advice goes I'd forget about the G2s unless you don't care about quality, and get a few 211s with Sankens. They're not as easy to hide as the Countryman but they sound great when properly placed on friendly fabric. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSBELLA Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 hey guys, A couple thoughts here. BernieB, I say this with a smile, the G2's are basically an expendable item. but they are the best $475.00 wireless systems available. the hand mic system is great for V.O.G.'s. try to determine what city you do the most work in and then figure out the tv ch. in your area or the frequencies that are "open" to you. then purchase the freq. blocks related to the tv ch. when purchasing try to pair up the wireless as far as freq blks. go. this way they are inter-changeable if one of the rcvrs or tx's go down, or you need that extra rvcr as a hop etc. Izen Ears, check out Lectro's site for daily updated tv station freqs. here is how to find it: from the home page- go to resources- go to tv station lookup- click on your respective city. there is the chart with the tv ch. and what is "open" it looks like NY has a open ch tv #26 for blk 21, then you said 26 worked a little better, tv 46, 49 are "open" I apologize for being redundant if you know how to use lectro's tv station look up, but you will be suprised a lot of people don't. or just forget that its there. the charts can help with inter-modulation problems as well. sometimes you might have a clear freq. but have your own wireless on another freq.block interfering your own systems. btw, did you work on the disney movie w/maitland, when you were getting no range on the wireless? good luck, fsbella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold F. Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Clearly, most people have better ears than I do. As far as I can tell, my G2's with VT500 lavs sound just as good as my 211/200 with a B6, sometimes better, and I can guarantee no director, producer, editor, re-recording mixer or audience member has ever known the difference. The G2's just aren't as robust or easy to use as my Lectros. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noni Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 HI Bernie, I have 5 units of Micron Explorer 100 Series- SDR116 small diversity receiver and TX716A transmitter, using with Sanken COS 11 and I must tell you they are working great. Price was close to 1600 euro per unit (with out Sanken) , it has 16 frequency chart (my is working from 798,125 Hz to 821.850 Hz and for now I did' t have to much trouble with range,but some times with his, yes). I am sure that with booster and good cart set up antenna everything is going to be much beater. Also Audio ltd series 2020 and 2040 with quad box are VERY GOOD. I hope that you will find a good wireless set up. Best regards Novica Jankov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Dan, Just a thought... Do you have a transmitter operating near the receivers? That can diminish the range considerably. If so, try moving the receivers well away from any transmitters and see if the reception is better. John Blankenship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 A quick note.... As a general rule, your receivers should be as close as possible to the talent.... period... I know a lot of guys run their units off their cart.... shark fins etc... Not me... I will only do this when we are moving at lightning speed, or in a room so small it would not matter. That being said, I have a stand with my receivers and a snake that is 100' long with all my channels on it.... and believe it or not A/C too!!!! I prefer to hang a small bag with the A/C power warts from the stand... I never liked running Batteries on my wireless unless on a process trailer. I will always run the stand and snake out to the edge of the set or wherever practical to run it.... I use the little matched whips..... No antenna cable.... and I seldom have any problems.... It is ALWAYS better to run mic line than antenna..... and the shear amount of people and crap between my cart and the talent it's a wonder some guys get signal at all..... Although this sounds strange, it has served me for years...... and the guys at Lectro thought, when I told them of this set up, it was in fact the best way to do it..... AGAIN, WHO KNOWS WHAT IS RIGHT, BUT THIS METHOD AS OUR FREQUENCIES DIMINISH... SEEMS TO HELP OUT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSBELLA Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 afmy, intresting setup. can you post a picture of the stand w/rcvrs?? I was always told that, to run MIC cable on longer runs, and keep the actual rf cables runs under 25' . later, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmassey Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 HERE, HERE on using mic cables to move the receivers closer to the set! That is abosolutely the best way to do it. The run of coaxial cable can give you great losses, the longer it becomes. Unless you want to use cable that is bigger than the electrician's run from the genie. As I said, I often take the receivers out of my bag, and get then as close to the talent as possible. For my EFP type of stuff, hide them in the grass, way out of the shot or something. Only once, when a grip knocked over a light stand, and the barndoor cut my cable cleanly have I had a problem. cleve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 No photo... but simple stuff.... I have NEVER liked my radio receivers to be locked into a box.... In my world, I like to have them ready to split up, move, service, yank and put wherever I want... Although I seldom split them up, when the time comes I like the ability to do it quickly... It aint pretty, but It works, and serves me well.. We call it the "Radio tower" I would say that the reception over the standard set up, due strictly to the proximity to the set is a 100% difference in reception and loss of any radio hits... I almost NEVER hear ANY hits.... Not even a worry.... My boom op uses his own cart... on that cart he has a C-stand which folds up and hangs on the side as we move about... If need be he pulls the radio tray off my main cart and pops it onto the top of the C-stand via a baby plate and a wood platform ( I use wood so as not to have any MORE metal around than needed...)... He then moves it into place right by the action... Plugs in the snake and he is ready to rock... I will only put 4 or 5 receivers on the stand for this operation, but SELDOM do I need more on the stand... This can be downed and moved in seconds and we have 100 ft to work with... Or just walked over a few feet while plugged in.... This allows me to sit a bit off the set so as I can relax without being ON TOP of the set... Too much going on for me, I always like the peace and quiet... I am usually offered a much better overall spot to set up, with the snake allowing me the freedom to go where I want. A HUGE plus... Great for those, I'm in front of the house and the set is indoors with cramped quarters situations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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