seth Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Wondering what other eng/corp mixers feel about getting referrals from other mixer and them taking a cut. Usually around 20%. The rates okay if I'm not working but principle feels a little awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I think it is unethical. Your either working or your not. I'm not here to broker deals for others. Maybe it is ok to put your gear to work, especially if the other guy is day playing or handling one block of many of filming, but even that is a bit questionable in my mind unless there is a disparate seniority level between the person doing the referring, since the other guy may not be as well equipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I feel it is wrong to charge a referral fee.. Have sometimes rented gear to people who needed it to do the job I referred them to... but if they only needed a piece or 2, I would just loan it.. However, I am careful about referring only people I know can do the job.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Your CUT is when they are busy they kick work back to you... It should be a buddy system ..... a fee reeks of a "foul" in my mind, we're supposed to be brothers and sisters here.... If you can't do a job, kick it to someone who can, and hopefully the opposite will occur.. I keep a small group of people in the loop and we work it this way.... no money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Hoppe Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Afewmoreyears- I couldn't have said it better. Taking a 20% cut is super shady, and I'd hesitate to recommend him or her for anything after that. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I deal with shooters that do that to sound guys. It IS unethical and basically stealing from other freelancers. Afewmoreyears is absolutely right. Whats more valuable, the money or the potential professional relationship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Yeremian Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I agree. 20% is definitely unethical to say the least. I would say a 50% fee MINIMUM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Flaitz Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I agree. 20% is definitely unethical to say the least. I would say a 50% fee MINIMUM! And half of their lunch. I didn't even know referral fees were a thing in this business... I've never asked, nor been asked for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 It IS NOT a thing. Anyone who thinks is it should be shamed. I'd like to know who is doing this and actually thinks it's ok to do so, and give him a piece of my mind. Sounds like a selfish jerk. who does he think he is. 20%. This boils my blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Afewmoreyears- I couldn't have said it better. Taking a 20% cut is super shady, and I'd hesitate to recommend him or her for anything after that. Marc I agree with both. I have heard of such a thing, but if someone asked me to "give them a cut", I'd turn the job down and never refer that mixer to any jobs. I'd also negatively judge a shooter for doing the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I know a guy who tries to do this to me fairly regularly. I never accept his gigs and I never refer him work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I wouldn't ever ask for a cut if I referred someone, and definitely would take a referral from someone asking to take a cut off the top. That's all kinds of wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Seth does this mean I owe you 20% for the gig you got me last week?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Futterman Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I don't ask, I would never accept it if someone offered me a cut. You pass me a job, next time I get double booked, I give you a job. If I don't get double booked for a while, you at least get a very sincere Thank You from me. But no cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan H. Chang Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Seth, I hope you're doing business with the RIGHT people! I would never ask for referral fees since it's simply unethical and ruins relationships very quickly. The least I can do is take them out for a good lunch/dinner, make it a group if you're always constantly getting work within your 'circles'. But a 20%?? Watch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I simply don't see that it's necessary or 'standard' in this business. If someone wants to make money on a project they aren't doing labor on, then they need to enter the rental business or create a production company and begin staffing for projects. After all, that's what production companies do - they up-charge for your services and labor and make money by planning and letting you do the work. Pretty standard once you think about it that way, but not something another mixer or sound professional should be doing to you in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Crewing services get a cut because that's their business. Everyone else gets a sincere thank you and the promise of doing the same for them should the situation arise. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Seth does this mean I owe you 20% for the gig you got me last week?? Ha no max! Thanks for covering me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Seth, I hope you're doing business with the RIGHT people! No hard feelings about he/she. I owe them a lot, just wanted to get a sense of "usual" practices. I honestly don't think this is 'unethical'. Just a way they decide to do business. There are services that do this and charge. But turns out most of you and I don't. There are however some producers I might debate their ethical practices. Just had a conversation being questioned why sound mixers are always so friendly to each other where camera ops tend to be not so much. I think it's the way we dress and are just usually cooler people Doing the, eh hum, World Series, AES, and this court case, has given me the opportunity to work along side other mixers. Defiantly enjoying the comaraderie vibe from the sound mixer community, an often lonely position. I really appreciate it, along with jwsound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Andrews Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I don't agree with charging the referral cut, it's not something i'd ever do. I will say that things get a little more complicated where a flat rate has been agreed with production for xx days, and then cover is required in the middle of that. In a few of those cases i've had to invoice the other sound mixer rather than dealing directly with production. I'd never know if they were taking a cut, but I'll always give the benefit of the doubt and won't question it. I can always turn the gig down if I wasn't happy with the rate, cut taken or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBoisseau Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I agree! I never charge, ask for, or offer a referal fee. HOWEVER, if I'm billing for a boom op, or some A2 on my invoice, and then paying them, I will mark up their rate. This is due to the fact that because they are now billing me I become much more liable should an accident occur. Additionally, I am now legally bound to pay them even if I don't get paid. Given these issues, I think a "mark up" is acceptable. I few years ago I had an assistant working with me on a TV show. He billed me $3000 which I in turn billed to my client with a slight mark up. My client never paid, but I paid my assistant every penny! This is why a "mark up" is okay in my mind. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Now that we no longer use ISDN in my place, one of the more marginal local studios offered me a commission if I'd send my Zephyr bookings to them. Left a bad taste in my mouth... I said 'no thanks', and still aren't recommending them. If they'd put the same money into better mics and preamps, and just told me about it, it would be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Haggerty Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 +1 The "Cut" is on the comeback. That's how to build a lasting, mutually beneficial relationship with peers. Skimming is just a dick move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWilson Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I usually buy a bottle of something to say thank you for the job referral. But in no way would I ask for a gift to say thank you in return. A lot of it is picking the right person for referring for that job, and in turn that keeps the client happy and more likely to use you or one of your comrades you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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