Sound Intuition Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 I am currently working on a show with two Sony 900 HD cameras. I as most every other department these days has become very used to seeing the picture. I don't have to keep bugging the operator by asking is this or that in shot, the AD's can properly run back ground etc.etc. The problem I'm having is that all my gear is analog and the downconverters supplied by Panavision are not very good. I have used miranda video converters in the past which work very well. What I want to avoid is being dependent on the camera department for a picture. Does anyone know of a reasonable priced monitor that I could use to loop out of the DP's wave form to my cart on a single bnc HD input. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 There's a Marshall that's sort of ok for about $5000. Scott Farr may have a better recommend. This situation is a major beef of mine on HD shoots--like you they expect I can see framing and size changes, but w/o a downconvertor to feed my std. def monitor I can't. As you have found out, a good downconvertor is expensive, and many producers don't want to rent them. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Thanks--that's an improvement. Next issue--will they have a HDSDI DA on the set to feed everyone? I see that this monitor auto terminates--I hope its termination is good enough for it to be looped from the DIT's monitor. The construction looks much better than my old Marshall SD monitor, and the 4 pin DC connector is great. It's on my Xmas list. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 It is my understanding that all video tuner/monitors that are imported into the US must now be HD compliant. Many major retailers saw this coming and stocked up before the mandate took place, and are still selling from their old stock. This means that the floodgates have not yet opened for HD compliant tuner/monitors into the US, which means that they are much more expensive than what we have been used to. As soon as the existing stock of non-HD complient versions have been depleted, the availability of small portable HD tuner/monitors should be good and the prices should come way down. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Intuition Posted November 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Thanks for getting back guys. Scott I was hopping you would reply when I wrote this post. One thing I forgot to metion was when the camera department was doing their pre prep at Panavision I went in and did a test record to send to post to check sync and make sure everything transfered fine. We did the original test at 23.98. By the time we got to set the DP had changed to 24p. Panavision forgot to tell us that the internal downconverters on the bnc out does not work at 24p, so we got to set with now downconvert. There is so much crap hanging off the cameras that the second assist has run out of ways to power off the camera so we are transmitting form video village now. Scott thanks for the link to Marshall I will check into them. the local rental house wants $200 a week rental on one. If this HD thing is truly the way of the future and if I was not looking at some new gear I would think about the V-R72P-2HD rack from Marshall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 It is my understanding that all video tuner/monitors that are imported into the US must now be HD compliant. Many major retailers saw this coming and stocked up before the mandate took place, and are still selling from their old stock. This means that the floodgates have not yet opened for HD compliant tuner/monitors into the US, which means that they are much more expensive than what we have been used to. As soon as the existing stock of non-HD complient versions have been depleted, the availability of small portable HD tuner/monitors should be good and the prices should come way down. Glen Trew I think the HD compliance only refers to the tuner being ATSC vs NTSC. Most likely you'll still see the usual 'consumer' HD inputs; Component, HDMI, etc. For our needs, pro gear will still be the only way to go. I agree though that once HD becomes the norm, prices on all these panels will fall. I've been seeing those Marshall monitors used pretty exclusively in a lot of the new TV trucks being built. They do look really nice and have a solid image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Am I retarded or cant you get a feed from the VTR guy..... I never seem to have a problem getting a feed from him..... Unless these shoots have no VTR guy..... all of mine always have one and they down convert it... I am probably demented.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Intuition Posted November 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 No there is no VTR guy. I was going to do a series last spring with the Viper and they were going to have a VTR station but it never happened. on this one the Dop sits at video village with the director and uses remote iris control with waveform and vector scope. It's not like the good old days when we all got the same feed. Video village would sometimes record on a clam shell for play back on certain scenes but not always. Has anybody ever had production rent them a monitor or do they assume it's part of the package? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I hope this is not going to become the norm... This is a bit troubling, unless the gig is small and weaselly. Then I guess anything goes.... 1-First and foremost, The elimination of the VTR dept. 2- now the monitor and feed situation is now your problem. If the production HAS NO VTR... Then as a part of the ordered package in my opinion, they should include a feed and monitor for you, period. Having image serves the mixer on so many fronts... Tell them to get you one... If we now need an expensive monitor, the VTR guy is gone..... Be ready to push around directors monitors!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Intuition Posted November 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 The over all budget is around 30 Million. In my 27 years in the business I have never had production provide me with a monitor. But if we are forced to put our nagra's away in favor of new hard drive recorders and retool everything for HD then why do we still have to fight with production managers for a fair kit rental. I know it's only a monitor. But rental houses do not charge the same price for a HD monitor as they do for an analog one. The same is true for camera packages. We should be able to charge more for an HD show than if it's a film shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbrisett Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 But rental houses do not charge the same price for a HD monitor as they do for an analog one. The same is true for camera packages. We should be able to charge more for an HD show than if it's a film shoot. Good luck with that! It seems that every production (regardless of budget) is trying to cut costs anyway they can, from kit rental to number of crew members. The recent production I worked on with Ron Scelza was a prime example, they didn't pay him nearly enough for his kit and they would only go with a two person sound crew when we really needed a third (especially since we were doing a multiple camera shoot and at a very frantic pace). I have no idea how to change this, mainly because a lot of the productions I work on are commercials and documentaries and they work a bit differently. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I have no problem providing a cheap standard def monitor for myself. For an HD monitor either they have to rent me one (hasn't happened yet) or rent a downconvertor, VTR dept or no (about 50/50 in my jobs if ther is VTR or not). If the HDSI monitors get close to as cheap as the SD monitors then I'll get one--they are getting close (re: the Marshall that Scott mentioned). I whine a lot about this to productions now--having been hosed on a few shoots where I couldn't see anything (walled off by grip/electric) and had no HD monitor or downconvertor. Fortunately for me, the champion scripty hereabouts wants SD video and TC for her rig (making PDFs w/ TC and thumbnail pix), so I can backdraft w/ her on these requests somewhat. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 wbriset, You fight it by doing what I suggested on the "Production rates" thread in General discussion... Like minds need to ALL come to an agreement on some basic standards.... and stick to them.... It probably wont work due to so many loose cannons running around out there.... But we should all TRY.... Everyone complains, but nobody wants to act.... I made suggestions, Everyone went silent... I am trying to do something!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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