pvanstry Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I love to watch a good submarine movie ( Crimson tide, Hunt for the red october, Das Boot, K19... ). But how the hell do you boom in there? How did the guys get the audio? All ADR? Sounds like a lot of ADR but how can that be the strategy for a filmmaker... Just curious here, have to get back to Apple TV and finish the movie ( K19 this morning ). Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 As you probably know, most submarine movies are not shot in real submarines --- the sets that are built for interior submarine are truly confining and difficult to shoot, but are not as impossible as they look on screen. Even though there are really low ceiling shown, there is usually many "ceiling pieces" that can removed for access for lighting, and sound, to the interior space. I haven't done any of the major submarine movies myself but have talked with many friends who have done these things. On many of these movies, their is a lot of wireless work (body mics) because the scenes just cannot be boomed. In really confined sets I have used combinations of boom mics, wireless lavs and plant mics, usually quite successfully. There is, of course, also some ADR needed in many cases but I doubt that there is really a strategy going into these sorts of movies that everything will have to be replaced, this is just not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Hey Pascal, I can't speak for drama, but I have some experience shooting a doc on a sub. I spent some time on an Ohio Class, (very large) and booming was next to impossible. Even when just doing stand-ups, we were never guaranteed to have space overhead. A low profile boom mic is essential, wires are essential and plant mics probably help a lot (cub-1 saved me many times) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Gentlemen, i appreciate the answer. Jeff, i am always amazed at actually having your comment given the list of credits you have, truly amazed. I am currently watching, actually more listening to K19. Every bit of it sounds alike and it is really impressive how much it sounds great. I see your point about the sets, and it is even more amazing that it sounds so equal from scene to scene given that the acoustics most be changing from shot to shot. Pretty cool stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ward Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 The first MOW I ever boomed was shot on the USS Drum in Mobile Al back in the early '90's. I was able to boom most of the scenes in the sub by snaking the boom through the maze of overhead pipes and other obsticles to a clear spot that would allow me some movement and queing. The rig was a Schoeps CMC4/MK4 with a GVC swivel on an early Mcdonald mount in low profile position with the mic horizontal to the boom. Due to the space limitations the actors movements were pretty restricted so that actually worked in our favor. Everything was shot hand held on the sub. I was dressed in the appropriate wardrobe so if they panned past me I could be in picture and not noticed. Many times the levels were all over the place due to the excitement of the scenes combined with some relatively green actors so there was a lot of mike mixing going on. There were a ton of adlibs as well. We used plant mics when necessary (Schoeps BLM's) as the VHF radio mics were difficult to use because of all the metal, meat puppets, and other obsticles effecting the range and reception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I absolutely LOVE the sound on The Hunt for Red October. Incredibly lush and detailed on the voices. I'm amazed they got such recordings even on a sound stage. My favourite submarine movie - 'Das Boot' - is on another scale altogether. I'm pretty sure the sets for that were ridiculously accurate and confining (it shows in the film) and I'm staggered at how any audio was captured at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 The first MOW I ever boomed was shot on the USS Drum in Mobile Al back in the early '90's. I was able to boom most of the scenes in the sub by snaking the boom through the maze of overhead pipes and other obsticles to a clear spot that would allow me some movement and queing. The rig was a Schoeps CMC4/MK4 with a GVC swivel on an early Mcdonald mount in low profile position with the mic horizontal to the boom. Exactly! Great that you could accomplish this and in a real submarine! I also love your mention of the "Mcdonald mount" which a lot of people don't know anything about the history of that. Both Don Coufal and I helped Randy McDonald when he was first designing that mount and I still have a mount that used the original bale piece stolen from SHURE donut mount. Later when PSC started manufacturing the mount (which most people think was always a PSC design), they did their own hardware (and didn't have to cannibalize a SHURE mount). The PSC was never really as good as the original, they made some bad choices for the bands (and Don and I always just used wide rubber bands instead of the round, red bands PSC used). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I would imagine the reflective nature of a heavy steel tube takes a little learning to boom as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ward Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Actually the most difficult thing about shooting on a sub is being 6' 3" and having to "Groucho Marx" walk everywhere. I hit my head so many times I'm pretty sure I lost a couple of IQ points by the time the shoot was over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Ive done 3 shows in subs, 2 in real subs and 1 in a set sub. What Kevin said is exactly right. You will notice that there aren't a lot of walk and talks in subs. Most of the time they huddle up and say their boring dialog, or there will be 2 huddles with one guy going from one to the other. Shooting in a real sub is quite maddening. There is so little room and everyone wants to be in the same spot. It takes forever to get things done. I'm surprised that people aren't strangled on the set. For what it's worth, I found the scheops gvc and shure donut mount to work the best. Also you can hide a lot gear in plain sight because of all the pipes- ie: mics, antennas Most of the time we would park the sound cart on top of the sub and cable down through the hatch with a huge snake. Once, we piece mealed the gear into the sub and set up Hq in the dinning area which in reality is about the size of a large baby crib. I hope to never do another show in a sub. They are quite cool to visit though. The first MOW I ever boomed was shot on the USS Drum in Mobile Al back in the early '90's. I was able to boom most of the scenes in the sub by snaking the boom through the maze of overhead pipes and other obsticles to a clear spot that would allow me some movement and queing. The rig was a Schoeps CMC4/MK4 with a GVC swivel on an early Mcdonald mount in low profile position with the mic horizontal to the boom. Due to the space limitations the actors movements were pretty restricted so that actually worked in our favor. Everything was shot hand held on the sub. I was dressed in the appropriate wardrobe so if they panned past me I could be in picture and not noticed. Many times the levels were all over the place due to the excitement of the scenes combined with some relatively green actors so there was a lot of mike mixing going on. There were a ton of adlibs as well. We used plant mics when necessary (Schoeps BLM's) as the VHF radio mics were difficult to use because of all the metal, meat puppets, and other obsticles effecting the range and reception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I did a sub movie and planted mics. up in the overhead piping,boomed over and under and as little wireless as I could.I used schoeps with swivel head & McDonald mount when I could. the sub was constantly being jarred by depth charges and half the movie had water spraying from broken pipes.So,Schoeps wouldn't work and I would use the Octava Mics. which didn't fail me.I also used cubs as plant mics [easy to hide].They told me there was no ADR, but I worked my #ss off----I would never do it again. J.D. P.S.--also used a lot of hogs hair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Ive done 3 shows in subs,2 in real subs and 1 in a set sub. What Kevin said is exactly right. You will notice that there aren't a lot of walk and talks in subs. Most of the time they huddle up and say their boring dialog, or there will be 2 huddles with one guy going from one to the other. Shooting in a real sub is quite maddening. There is so little room and everyone wants to be in the same spot. It takes forever to get things done. I'm surprised that people aren't strangled on the set. For what it's worth, I found the scheops gvc and shure donut mount to work the best. Also you can hide a lot gear in plain sight because of all the pipes- ie: mics, antennas Most of the time we would park the sound cart on top of the sub and cable down through the hatch with a huge snake. Once we piece mealed the gear into the sub and set up Hq in the dinning area which in reality is about the size of a large baby crib. I hope to never do another show in a sub. They are quite cool to visit though. I've done a couple of commercials on real Subs and a few on mock ups. Both are a pain in the ass. What mirror and others have said are very true. This is one I did last year on a real Russian Sub that is down next to the Queen Mary in Long Beach. The water rising scene was in the water tank at Universal Studios. My boom op was in full wet suit w a SM 57 in condoms. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I've done a couple of commercials on real Subs and a few on mock ups. Both are a pain in the ass. What mirror and others have said are very true. This is one I did last year on a real Russian Sub that is down next to the Queen Mary in Long Beach. The water rising scene was in the water tank at Universal Studios. My boom op was in full wet suit w a SM 57 in condoms. CrewC Crew, I shot in that same sub. Crazy times. Even dropped a Comtek Rx into a crevasse in one of the compartments. The thing slid about 5 feet down along the inside hull and landed on top of a pool of a 40 year old grease. Took me 45 minutes to devise a way to retrieve it. It it had been my gear I would of put it on the L&D and left it. Mirror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I did a sub movie and planted mics. up in the overhead piping,boomed over and under and as little wireless as I could.I used schoeps with swivel head & McDonald mount when I could. the sub was constantly being jarred by depth charges and half the movie had water spraying from broken pipes.So,Schoeps wouldn't work and I would use the Octava Mics. which didn't fail me.I also used cubs as plant mics [easy to hide].They told me there was no ADR, but I worked my #ss off----I would never do it again. J.D. P.S.--also used a lot of hogs hair Hey J.D., How do the Octava mics cut with the Schoeps? I've never used Octavas, but have heard great things about them. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 " Sounds like a lot of ADR but how can that be the strategy for a filmmaker... " Waterworld was shot using that strategy, 100% ADR, planned that way from pre-pro. (BTW, still employed an A-List Production Sound Crew, and a 2nd unit sound crew that was mostly a OMB) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 The Late Great Keith Wester was the mixer on Waterworld. He was certainly one of the best I ever worked with. I miss him and his wonderful voice and laugh. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Never worked in a sub, but I did an HGTV shoot in an Eagle bus that had been converted to an RV. Wireless was great on the interior, which was all paneled in hardwood by the owner. Boom was a bitch on the interior walk and talks, so they probably used the wireless there. Exteriors were a different story. Wireless was taking a lot of hits as the owners walked about the exterior explaining the conversion process. I'm thinking it was due to the fact that the exterior of the bus is essentially a big aluminum wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hey J.D., How do the Octava mics cut with the Schoeps? I've never used Octavas, but have heard great things about them. ~tt Usually I only used the Oktava's when there was water spraying and the Schoeps when it was dry,but when they did cut together they did fine. J.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Wow, that's a surprisingly effective commercial. Sweet sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 I've done a couple of commercials on real Subs and a few on mock ups. Both are a pain in the ass. What mirror and others have said are very true. This is one I did last year on a real Russian Sub that is down next to the Queen Mary in Long Beach. The water rising scene was in the water tank at Universal Studios. My boom op was in full wet suit w a SM 57 in condoms. CrewC So great sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Last Resort http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2172103/ We have the Robert J. Anderson Jr. or Blake Marymor here on JW Sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmixersf Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 I did extensive FX recording for K-19, both on the Russian sub in Long Beach and on the USS Pampanito, a WWII era sub that's up here in SF. Post sound needed all the hatches, switches, valves, cabinet and locker doors, latches, and quite a bit of Foley done to picture in the subs to replace the unrealistic production FX that had been recorded on the sets built for the film. We recorded ambience in many of the compartments of the subs as well. The action also required a vast library of metal hits and stress sounds, hisses, whirs and mechanical running sounds, etc., most of which I found in other places. It was great fun, but I'd have to agree that working inside the subs was maddeningly difficult, even with a relatively small FX recording kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Palmer Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 U-571, while incredibly inaccurate, is a submarine film that I've always enjoyed the sound design of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 The best movie ever on submarines is "Das Boot", brilliantly Directed by Wolfgang Petersen, shot by Jost Vacano, Sound Edited by Mike Le Mare. Absolutely brilliant. It was released as a 2 and a half hour feature, a later Director's cut was 3 .5 hours. I've also seen the full 6 hour mini-series. If you can find it it's well worth watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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