Derek H Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Their gear is worth it. Figure it as the cost of not having to be a beta tester. Not that their gear is bug free but mostly it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Their gear is worth it. Figure it as the cost of not having to be a beta tester. Not that their gear is bug free but mostly it is. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Duff Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Well ain't that a kick in the nuts! I was so close to a 664. Hello Zaxcom.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 The recorders in question are generally the primary tools of their owners if their owners are professional sound people who make their living with those tools. A bump in price of this much, which could well reflect a rise in SD's cost to make the things, is a minor nuisance when you consider how much you will be relying on this tool. These machines do amazing things for their price, esp compared to the 2 channel (or one channel) tools we used to use (Nagra, DAT, VTRs). All the small manufacturers who make tools for our biz will have to raise prices sooner or later, today was SD's turn. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Duff Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I completely agree it is amazing value compared to 10 or 20 years ago and considering the importance of the gear to the job the price is not unreasonable. Its the immediacy and extent of the change that seems abrupt, especially in the brand new 664. Alistair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Howland CAS Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm so glad I bought the 664 already. I feel like it was a great deal for what it can do, even with the price increase. I don't think it made sense for the 664 to be cheaper than the 744t. I'm surprised Sound Devices released the 664 with such a cheap price point. It should have been higher all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm not surprised at the increase. Happy that my order is already in too-even if i'm in 90 something on the list. #664 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Duff Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm a total fan boy of Sound Devices products, however after their abrupt and large price increase I am looking at how much Zax offers for the money. With Zaxnet it might be a deal breaker. I will continue to use my Mix Pre-D on my boom but may choose Zax as my big investment for their integrated digital approach. Alistair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Alistair, don't forget, with SD you'll get a first class piece of equipment that will be in production for many years and will be supported for many years after that. With Nomad, you can't even be sure your chosen unit will still be in production in 6 months! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugstar Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Its not that bad, Do you fancy paying what we've been paying in the UK? 552 £3900 = $6250. 744t £3549 = $5689 788t (160g) £5010 = $8030 No, didn't think so. £3900 for a 552?!?!?!?!? you've been HAD! i paid £2500 for mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 It is curious that a new product (664) is significantly affected by this price jump. Did costs just increase within the last 2 months? Was the lower price a bonus for early adopters of the 664? Whatever, still a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 This is EXACTLY why we should all be raising our rates every January. It's a lot easier to put through a small annual bump than explaining a 15% jump every few years. I'm not saying SD should do it that way, but a lot of utilities (cable, internet) raise their rates every January. It's probably easier for your regular clients to know you have a policy of raising rates every January than a surprise every 5 years. Offhand I think congress, and most government workers, get 3% a year. As for prices, at the end of the day, things are still a LOT cheaper than they were a few years ago. A 788T is a lot cheaper than a much less capable recorder from, say, Fostex was just a few years ago (PD-6, PD-606). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 This is EXACTLY why we should all be raising our rates every January. It's a lot easier to put through a small annual bump than explaining a 15% jump every few years. I'm not saying SD should do it that way, but a lot of utilities (cable, internet) raise their rates every January. It's probably easier for your regular clients to know you have a policy of raising rates every January than a surprise every 5 years. The problem with this strategy, unfortunately, is that if you and only a few others let "your clients know" you have a policy of raising your rates in January, those regular clients may rapidly cease to be your clients. They will seek out all the others who not only are not raising their rates they are in fact reducing, giving discounts, giving stuff away for free just to secure the work. When you talk about a utility company raising their rates, it is a whole different ball game. What are you, the client, going to do, tell Southern California Edison you don't want their electricity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhobbit Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Agreed that the price of services and goods will go up, but with the 664, you can not go to any dealer and just buy one from the shelf yet. So the price increase comes as a shock. Four grand was a great price and if you were waiting for the pre-orders to be filled before buying one, now feel like a little bait and switch. If it is now worth 4500, why wasn't it started at that price. This was a new product. I can see the increase of the older products going up because of labor and raw materials price hikes from years ago. I think this would have made less of an uproar if the 664 price had stayed the same. But I can see where the used market would go up a little, but all of this makes no different when productions are telling us what are rates are going to be. But that's another story. Scott..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 It is weird that the 664 was included in this, though not increasing the 664 would be an additional jab at 788T sales (let alone 744). I guess it is the bonus to anyone that pre-paid for a product months before getting it instead of just putting their name on a waiting list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Alistair, don't forget, with SD you'll get a first class piece of equipment that will be in production for many years and will be supported for many years after that. With Nomad, you can't even be sure your chosen unit will still be in production in 6 months! That's nonsense. Our Devas are still in production years later, and still kick ass. I think Devas got cheaper over time too, in the sense that things like the effects package were included with every model (iirc) instead of being an option. The change in Nomads was Zaxcom adjusting to what people are actually buying. They reduced the choice to 3 models. Possibly dropping the old base model in anticipation of the Maxx. they increased what was included in the models while lowering prices. That's tough to spin as a negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 johnpaul is right regarding Jon Gilbert's comment about Nomad not even being in production 6 months from now. It is a nonsense comment which demonstrates no understanding of Zaxcom or the product line. The only changes that have happened in relation to Nomad (and actually almost all Zaxcom products) is that new models and new configurations have been introduced, features have been added and upgradable at little or no cost, consolidation of model offerings have resulted in more machine for less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I specifically said Nomad JP, you Deva users are a different bunch After all the fuss and hoo-haa over the launch of the Nomad, it was just interesting to see the way they rationalised the product line so quickly, leaving early adopters (or beta testers as they would more accurately be called) angry at what happened. You could argue that if Zaxcom had properly tested both the unit and the market without people having to get their hands in their pockets, that would have been better all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 All of a sudden I'm the baddy Is it not true, that some Nomad models bought 6 months ago is now not in production? Yes it is true, the model range had changed, surely you can't argue with that, no matter how much you love Zaxcom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 All of a sudden I'm the baddy Is it not true, that some Nomad models bought 6 months ago is now not in production? Yes it is true, the model range had changed, surely you can't argue with that, no matter how much you love Zaxcom. Yes, the model range or line-up did change, that we can all agree on. Where we disagree is the conclusion that because Zaxcom made these changes it is a bad thing and we should not trust a company that refines the feature set and configurations of its products and actually offers more for the dollar with these changes. With your way of thinking we should now be so royally pissed at Sound Devices for abruptly raising the price on the 664 before a lot of people can even get their hands on the model. Both conclusions, bashing either Zaxcom or Sound Devices, is petty and disrespectful of two of the most important companies providing us with the best tools to do our jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pverrando Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Around 1996, a TC stereo Nagra was what, $13000? Also, using credit card for purchase was unlikely then. You typically couldn't do a well-budgeted production or commercial without TC Nagra. In non-union markets, it kept the number of players down, and defined the line between career sound mixers and the "uncommitted". Those days are long gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Joachim Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Around 1996, a TC stereo Nagra was what, $13000? Also, using credit card for purchase was unlikely then. You typically couldn't do a well-budgeted production or commercial without TC Nagra. In non-union markets, it kept the number of players down, and defined the line between career sound mixers and the "uncommitted". Those days are long gone! Closer to 16k as I recall and, that was without the $1,200.00 Q-Set 7" lid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) " What about this economy justifies a price increase for existing technology, " it is called inflation. " Shouldn't the increase start to take effect, at the retail level, on items received and paid for after the date of the increase? " it depends " I wonder if people still buy 702t 722 and 744t... " that is because you are looking at a very small piece of the marketplace. " If we do not want the extended warranty can we get a lower price? " it is not offered as an option, but as a value added. NO " close to a 664. Hello Zaxcom.? " also part of Biz 101: I'm certain they considered competitive factors... " a new product (664) is significantly affected by this price jump. Did costs just increase within the last 2 months? Was the lower price a bonus for early adopters of the 664? " they gave the early adopters a break... " you can not go to any dealer and just buy one from the shelf yet. " those who pre-ordered are price protected... " if you were waiting for the pre-orders to be filled before buying one, now feel like a little bait and switch. " nah.... if you snooze, you loose! " the bonus to anyone that pre-paid for a product months before getting it instead of just putting their name on a waiting list. " " I think congress, and most government workers, get 3% a year. " our shobiz unions have made 2% the new 3%... " Closer to 16k as I recall and, that was without the $1,200.00 Q-Set 7" lid. " and another ~$1,200 for the external resolver! (needed for music videos, which also required a TC Nagra " properly tested both the unit and the market without people having to get their hands in their pockets, that would have been better all round. " huh?? " What are you, the client, going to do, tell Southern California Edison you don't want their electricity? " Jeff, didn't you, like many others do exactly that ?? Edited November 28, 2012 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Both conclusions, bashing either Zaxcom or Sound Devices, is petty and disrespectful of two of the most important companies providing us with the best tools to do our jobs. I'm bashing no one Jeff and I'm surprised and a bit disappointed you think I am, I'm commenting on something that happened, and that in truth does put me off buying Zaxcom, living in the UK, the potential upgrade path isn't worth much, with shipping charges, time taken and customs charges. I want to buy the right machine first time, not one that the manufacturer realises they could have made differently (properly?) 6 months down the line. As for the Sound Devices price rise, why don't you ask me what I think? instead of putting words in my mouth, quite the wrong words too. I think the rises are fair, all par of running a business, and don't see why anyone would feel the way some posters on here feel, seems they're looking for something to get cross about rather than being glad there are good products out there to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 <Sound Devices now offers a 2 year warranty on their products.> AHEM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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