Unpublished Cantar X2 Specs

[Earl]

Is anyone aware of the Cantar's unlisted specs? For instance, mic frequency response, signal-to-noise ratio, and actual dynamic range. That or anything you've personally measured. Many thanks!

[Jeff Wexler]

Is anyone aware of the Cantar's unlisted specs? For instance, mic frequency response, signal-to-noise ratio, and actual dynamic range in terms other than "wide" That or anything you've personally measured. Many thanks!

I can't imagine there is any significant changes in the specs you mention above, and why would there be? Frequency response, signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range are already at their theoretical and practical limit for most all of the professional machines in use today, with the Cantar very much included in that. The things which I think are of most interest to most of us regarding any new or upgraded recorder are things in the area of ease of use, number of tracks, media supported, etc.

[Earl]

Thanks Jeff. I'm not aware that Aaton has ever mentioned these specs, whereas they're common knowledge with other recorders. It would be helpful to know.

[soundtrane]

www.aaton.com

and for once, allow me.... <cap>

[Boomboom]

It would be helpful to know.

Well, when THEY decide it's helpful to know, they'll advise.

So: exactly what Jeff & vin said, in a way.

[studiomprd]

Hi, Earl, welcome,

and thanks Vin...

[Earl]

Hi, Earl, welcome,

Many thanks, Senator.

www.aaton.com

It's only been two days and no info yet from Aaton. Here's hoping...

[TJW]

Jeff has already said it: "Frequency response, signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range are already at their theoretical and practical limit for most all of the professional machines in use today, with the Cantar very much included in that." If you need to know a particular figure, talk or e-mail Aaton directly - they are incredibly helpful. If you are not sure if a Cantar is good enough for your needs, try one, listen, use your ears. Its what we do.

[Eric Toline]

Here's everything from the Cantar tech specs page on their website:

Cantar-X2 new features

(Contact Aaton for X1 to X2 upgrades)

• Play&Rec: records live audio while playing-back pre-recorded sounds; overdubs cued dialog tracks.
  
• WordSync: sample-rate syncing of paralleled recorders
  
• Differential Delays: up to 85ms@48kHz on analog inputs.
  
• Ethernet TCP/IP: communication with Mac & PC laptops, allowing realtime control by Grand-Arcan.
  

Media

• Recording and playback to and from shock resistant and sealed 2.5" internal FireWire connected hard drive. Stores the sound of a complete film production.
  
• Simultaneous 8 track recording on internal hard drive or flash memory, and external FireWire connected HDD. The 8 tracks can be either 6 digital fader controlled tracks plus 2 tracks receiving either the mixdown, or direct inputs.
  
• FAT32 formatting allows for up to 127GB, i.e. up to 60 hours depending on number of tracks and sample rate (up to 96K). The removable internal disk is hot pluggable to PC or Mac workstations (Avid, FCP, Sadie, Fairlight, Pyramix Protools etc.)
  
• Fast copy to external drives such as HDD and DVD-Ram powered by Cantar through FireWire, or copy to on board CDR/DVD±R/DVD-RAM burner.
  
• Not using a proprietary format nor compressed files, the Cantar internal hard disk is instantly accessible, through FireWire, from the desktop of a PC or Mac laptop: a quick way to make copies to other medias, to insure TCP/IP internet transmission and to load Cantar software updates.
  

Audio Format

• AES31 BWF Monophonic tracks for instant use by any computer or mixing console with no de-interleaving nor decompressing treatment.
  
• Built-in CDR burner delivers ISO 9660 Mono or Poly files (stereo interleaved) for on-the-fly telecine syncing and editing stations.
  
• 16 and 24 bit, 44.1Khz to 96.096Khz sampling rates in & out. Built-in sample converters allow for any AES source sample-rate.
  
• 'Working day' based session recording. Eliminates clumsy disk partitioning.
  
• Management of several projects on the same disk.
  
• Automatic 'unique identifier' file name generator.
  
• Circled takes, slate locators, sc&tk Ids etc. are entered from either the Cantar control panel or from a wireless (Bluetooth) connected PDA or external keyboard.
  
• Metadata (e.g. scene & take & comments, in and out points etc.) is delivered as ALE lists and embedded in the AES31 description field that Avid v11, Xpress-DV and FCP import (see http://www.aaton.com/products/post/indaw/ flow chart)
  
• Audio files are compatible with the Aaton Keylink (telecine code reader with on the fly audio syncing), and the Aaton InDaw (video post syncing station).
  

Inputs

• Nine simultaneous analog inputs on XLRs:
  

  • Five low noise mic preamps with isolation 10dBU very high quality transformers (Zin = 2KOhm each with its own 48V Phantom supply (40mA distributed to the five mics), analog HP filter (60 to 240, -6 and -12 db slope, plus LFA) and analog domain limiter. Two gangable pairs (gain, limiter, and filter).
    
  • Four analog line inputs, G = +15dB, max level +22dB. Zin = 4.4KOhm.
    

  [*]Eight AES inputs, each pair with its own sample rate converter.

Mixer and outputs

• All 18 inputs can be mixed and routed to:
  

  • One to 8 tracks
    
  • Stereo 1/4" headphone (automatic MS decoding). 65mW (70 Ohm), 140mW (32 Ohm), 560mW (8 Ohm).
    
  • Two symmetrical analog line (XLR-5).
    
  • Two asymmetrical analog wireless IFB (mini-jack).
    
  • Eight AES with sample rate converters
    

Advances in the field recorder domain

• all routing and physical configurations are memorized and can be recalled.They can also be stored in a PDA or laptop for instant programation of a new machine.
  
• Built-in, dustproof and waterproof six linear fader mixer (patent pending) for comprehensive 'dynamic' control of the two track mixdown. Individual gain values are stored using XML syntax as a guide for the final sound- mixing stage.
  
• AutoSlate automatically stamps a TC on the detected clapsticks.
  
• Ready to print PDF sound-report.
  

Metering

• Dial shapped modulometers with 1 dB increments with peak, clip and limiter-in-action indicators.
  
• User-selectable ballistics.
  
• High contrast LCD displays highly visible in direct sunlight. Adjustable back-lighting.
  
• Swivelling display panel optimizes visibility for shoulder strap and cart.
  

Timecode

• 1ppm Tcxo reference internal clock, eight hours before re-jamming.
  
• Dual Smpte and AatonCode jamming.
  
• Timecode i/o through Lemo-5.
  

Power

• Aaton's operating system insures low power operation: 500mA in test with all inputs activated, ultra-fast cold start-up (<5 sec), and fail-safe disk control.
  
• Two identical on board quick release Aaton batteries (4 pin XLR) insure seamless switchover during recording (NP1s can be used too).
  
• Depending on the "test-to-record" ratio, one on-board battery set lasts from 10 to 18 hours.
  

Miscellaneous

• 1 to 35 second pre-record.
  
• Immediate playback of the last recorded file.
  
• Play back scrub, in-points markers and slate markers.
  
• Softwares and pre-configured routings can be downloaded from Aaton's servers and transmitted to the core OS by FireWire.
  
• Reference tone and warning generator.
  
• Open mechanical structure with independant Analog, Digital and Display modules for easy maintenance and - 'anti-obsolescence' - upgrades.
  
• Wireless Bluetooth link to and from PDAs.
  

Physical

• Housings made of molded aluminium. Waterproof, dustproof faders.
  
• Dimensions: 326 x 241 x 104 mm.
  
• Weight 3.2 kg (7.5lbs), without battery.
  

[studiomprd]

Thanks Eric, but the OP wants the unpublished info...

[Earl]

If you are not sure if a Cantar is good enough for your needs

I have no doubt whatsoever that it's good enough - I just want to know what the "theoretical and practical limit" is It's not a deal breaker otherwise, but "unsurpassed" is a big word when the Sonosax SX62R and SX-R4 specs for instance are very much higher than even Nagra's best. Obviously, specs doth not [always] make the machine, but I'm curious.

[David Waelder]

Earl- Where are you?

While Aaton hasn't chosen to post specs for S/N or frequency response and distortion, I think that information can be determined without too much difficulty from a test bench. Some years ago Bruce Bisenz performed a bias adjustment on my Nagras. At the conclusion of the procedure, he measured the overall performance of the machines. Bruce, a sound mixer, was a pretty active equipment tinkerer and builder, so his test bench was better equipped than most, but I'm sure that he didn't have an ultra expensive rig. I'm betting that Mark Lesonsky at Location Sound could make the same measurements. And, if not, maybe Bruce (now retired) still has the test equipment and might be enticed to run some tests for you.

If you're in the LA area, I would be happy to make my Cantar available for the test run. If not, maybe you could find a shop near you and borrow a recorder from someone else.

Since results can vary a bit, you would be wise to also run a series of tests of at least one or two competing recorders for comparison.

David

[Earl]

David, thank you very much indeed for your post and especially your kind offer. There are no Aaton dealers here in Ecuador, but I will return to the States to buy when I do. Once again, my sincere thanks.

For interest 'sake, here are some pics of where I live.

[Tom Visser]

Earl, I visited Ecuador twice, last year and the year before, for a medical doc shoot. It was a wonderful country full of great people. I had such a great impression of the country that I'd like to come back some day for pleasure. We flew into Quito, of course, but shot mostly in Latacunga and various locations out in Orellana in or about Coca.

[Earl]

Hi Tom. I remember a while ago reading somewhere on the 'Net of your trip to Ecuador. You're right, the people are truly wonderful. I made more friends here in the first month after arriving than in ten years elsewhere. I've lived here permanently ever since. When you come to visit I'd be honored to meet you.

Although Cotacachi is somewhat remote, the big cities are not very far away. There are many recording opportunities in Quito and Cuenca, which is on the other side of the country but still only $14 away by luxury coach.

All the best.

[Earl]

I am pleased to announce the missing Cantar specs according to Aaton:

Frequency Response: Are you using one?

SNR: Your Cantar serial number?

Dynamic Range: Where you are?

Oh well Hopefully Aaton will be more candid with the X3.

[martyg]

You could test a lot of it yourself, with Rightmark software but, as others have said, most equipment is quite close to theoretical limits.

[studiomprd]

I am pleased to announce the missing Cantar specs according to Aaton:

Frequency Response: Are you using one?

SNR: Your Cantar serial number?

Dynamic Range: Where you are?

Oh well Hopefully Aaton will be more candid with the X3.

well, if you can't hear the difference for yourself, why worry...

Go Aaton!

[TJW]

I am pleased to announce the missing Cantar specs according to Aaton:

Frequency Response: Are you using one?

SNR: Your Cantar serial number?

Dynamic Range: Where you are?

Oh well Hopefully Aaton will be more candid with the X3.

Ha ha. Aaton did not want to play your recorder Top Trumps game! I have both a Cantar and a Sonosax and I have never spent a second comparing their SNR or dynamic range figures as I will never hear the difference. Both have their qualities and if I were to differentiate between any two recorders be they Sonosax, Aaton, Zaxcom or Kudelski, I would consider transformer balanced inputs, limiters, number of tracks, ease of mixing, presentation of rushes and reports etc etc where there are significant differences. And I hope that the X3 blows you away such that you forget recorder Top Trumps.

[soundtrane]

Frequency Response: Are you using one?

SNR: Your Cantar serial number?

Dynamic Range: Where you are?

Now, i am almost sure i know WHO responded to your mail from Aaton. Heh.

[Earl]

And I hope that the X3 blows you away such that you forget recorder Top Trumps.

No doubt the X3 will exceed all expectations, but I do need the specs for critical music recording. I wouldn't pair a MKH 800 with a 788T or Nomad, for instance, since the specs on those machines don't justify the mic's bandwidth. And I'm sorry but "unsurpassed" and "huge" aren't quantifiable terms. It's irrelevant that my [regrettably] high hearing threshold can't discern actual notes in those frequencies. But my eyes don't deceive me when the manufacturer lists the specs

Regarding the theoretical limits, I just want to know where "huge" sits between 22 kHz (788T) and 200 kHz (SX-ST). Again, I realize that specs aren't everything at this level, but surely "unsurpassed" preamps deserve a meaningful description. I'll certainly do the measurements, but it would be great to have the manufacturer's word on them instead.

[Earl]

Now, i am almost sure i know WHO responded to your mail from Aaton. Heh.

[studiomprd]

" but I do need the specs for critical music recording. I wouldn't pair a MKH 800 with a 788T or Nomad, for instance, since the specs on those machines don't justify the mic's bandwidth. "

IOW, you are an audio snob....

perhaps you should find a premium vendor that will make you gear to your spec's...

[traut]

I love my Cantars.

Don't know the specs, but the preamps and limiters are crazy good.

[Constantin]

Regarding the theoretical limits, I just want to know where "huge" sits between 22 kHz (788T) and 200 kHz (SX-ST). Again, I realize that specs aren't everything at this level, but surely "unsurpassed" preamps deserve a meaningful description. I'll certainly do the measurements, but it would be great to have the manufacturer's word on them instead.

Hi Earl, I am curious why you think you might need a frequency response beyond the 22kHz of 788T? The 200KHz of the SX-ST almost certainly refer to the mixer section only. The recorder's response will be unable to go beyond 96KHz. Which is still way more than any of us will ever be able to actually hear. So why, I wonder, would that be an important spec?