Not another argument about gun control

[dfisk]

You have every right to NOT take a plane.

Way did you refuse to be scanned? It's so silly.

What did you have to hide?

Do you kick up a fuss going to concerts and sporting events as well?

You must not know how laws and rights work. Yes, I have every right to not take a plane, but it is unconstitutional to demand I give up certain rights in able to travel faster than a car. That is a false choice, and an argument lacking substance.

We are protected from illegal search and seizure. The supreme court has ruled that you cannot be randomly searched by any local, state, or federal employee without probably cause. Basically this means you just can't be stopped at random and be given a pat down or searched if you haven't done anything wrong. The reason being is that they have to assume you are involved in some sort of criminal activity in order to be searched. By searching every single person that goes into an airport via pat downs or body scanners, they are assuming that every single person is a criminal.

I refused to be scanned based on the principle that, according to the constitution, I should not have to be scanned. I don't have anything to hide, and the "what do you have to hide" argument is a non-starter. It shouldn't matter if I have nothing to hide. What matters is I have a right to not be searched without probable cause. It doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what the law says. If you aren't willing to stand up for the basic rights like this, then you do not deserve to be protected by those rights.

I have not been to a concert or sporting event where I've had to go through a body scanner or get patted down. I understand metal detectors. That's fine. But I'm not going to go through a machine that throws radiation at my body without knowing how much radiation there is...and don't tell me you trust the numbers they give you, because any radiologist will tell you those numbers are way wrong. Plus, now some mystery person is in a room looking at me naked. The feds said the pictures would not be saved, but then it came out that they lied about that, and they were saved. I also refuse to have my children go through these body scanners or get patted down. They are all 11 years old and younger. I don't want some TSA worker looking at my kids naked. Sorry. No way. No how. They can go through the metal detector, and that's it. We don't fly with them because of this.

[Henchman]

North Hollywood bank robbery anyone? The cops were completely out-gunned and had to get guns on loan from a local gun shop in order to fight back.

Anther example as to why allowing someone to own an infinite number of guns and ammunition should be outlawed.

Keep in mind some people don't live in a city.

The north end of the county where I live has maybe one cop that covers 100's of square miles.

You would be foolish to rely on the police showing up in a timely manor.

That wasn't the question, was it.

[Henchman]

You must not know how laws and rights work. Yes, I have every right to not take a plane, but it is unconstitutional to demand I give up certain rights in able to travel faster than a car. That is a false choice, and an argument lacking substance.

Nope. It is not a right. It is a business that can refuse you entry for a variety if reasons if they choose.

Just like going to a club, and the bouncer wants to frisk you, and you refuse, they can refuse you entry.

Furthermore, the body scanners that they are starting to use do NOT show your naked body. So you are severely over-reacting.

And they are not random searches. Because EVERYONE is subjected the same search. So you are not being singled out, based on skin color or anything else. You we lucky they let you on. As the TSA does in fact have the right to restrict you access to the secure area.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/11/22/tsa-clarifies-policy-for-pat-down-refusal-in-time-for-thanksgiving/

Some people just like no cause a fuss over nothing.

Personally, I don't want anybody on my flight who refuses to be searched.

[OmahaAudio]

Connecticut. GUN FREE ZONE. Shooters kills until the police arrive. Suicide. 26 dead.

What crap.

If it's such a "gun free zone" how do you explain the fact that all of the shooters weapons were legally purchased and owned by his mother? And please, don't let the facts get in the way of your response.

[nwstudios]

That wasn't the question, was it.

Seeing as how the there are not any Hells Angels within 500 miles

and I don't have the phone number I would have to day no

[dfisk]

Nope. It is not a right. It is a business that can refuse you entry for a variety if reasons if they choose.

Just like going to a club, and the bouncer wants to frisk you, and you refuse, they can refuse you entry.

Furthermore, the body scanners that they are starting to use do NOT show your naked body. So you are severely over-reacting.

And they are not random searches. Because EVERYONE is subjected the same search. So you are not being singled out, based on skin color or anything else. You we lucky they let you on. As the TSA does in fact have the right to restrict you access to the secure area.

http://boardingarea....r-thanksgiving/

Some people just like no cause a fuss over nothing.

Personally, I don't want anybody on my flight who refuses to be searched.

You are misunderstanding me. Flying on a plane is not a right. I agree with that. What is unconstitutional is to demand that I give up certain rights in order to enter the airport. Bars and stuff like that is different. You are entering private property at that point. Airports like LAX or owned by the public. That's a different story.

They just switched to the scanners that do not show your naked body. Up until very recently, they actually did show you naked. Remember when they were showing examples on the news? They do randomly search people, but even if they are searching everyone in such an invasive way, that doesn't make it right. What it means is everyone is having their 4th amendment right violated. What about people who cannot go through the scanners? People that have had a lot of chemotherapy? They are not supposed to have any unnecessary radiation, so they are forced to get patted down through no fault of their own. I've seen stories of people's colostomy bags being pulled out and spilled because of careless TSA. Stories of little kids getting searched for no reason by TSA. Do we really want to live in a country where we allow low skilled workers to touch our children in ways an uncle would go to jail for? Do we want to allow them to keep stealing stuff out of luggage? Is it ok that the TSA makes a mother with a baby throw out the breast milk she had in a cooler for her baby? Do they really think that is a threat? Why do people put up with this nonsense?

This is not causing a fuss over nothing. This is standing up for our basic rights. If you want to let them search you without cause, that's fine with me, but I'll be standing there telling them they are breaking the law by doing so in order to protect your rights. The "go along to get along" mentality is what causes more rights to be slowly stripped away. If you can't be counted on to stand up for the little things, then how can you be counted on to stand up for the bigger things? Again, if you aren't willing to protect your rights, you really don't deserve to be protected by them.

[nwstudios]

Again, if you aren't willing to protect your rights, you really don't deserve to be protected by them.

For some people it might be more of a case of trusting the government to be benign and benevolent.

Personally I would make sure all my fingers were still there after shaking hands with a politician.

[Henchman]

You are aware that exposure to radiation of a scanner is the same as being exposed to 2miutes cosmic radiation that you are exposed to during the flight.

Are you aware the explosive fire that can be done by combining very small amounts of fluid?

Do you think that terrorists wouldn't disguise themselves as pregnant women?

Or would you prefer to be blown out of the sky?

Are you aware of the printer toner bombs they found?

You have the right to refuse being searched.

And the TSA can't force you to submit to a search or bodyscan, observing your 4th amendment rights.

At that point the TSA has the right to ask you to leave the airport.

Should you refuse. Then they have the right to detain you.

Ad yes, the TSA has every right to detain you. As they are part of Hoemand security but also, backin 1973 airport security checks were exempted from the 4th amendment rule.

[dfisk]

For some people it might be more of a case of trusting the government to be benign and benevolent.

Personally I would make sure all my fingers were still there after shaking hands with a politician.

And our government has proved time and time again they are neither benign nor benevolent.

[Henchman]

"In 1973 the 9th Circuit Court rules on U.S. vs Davis, 482 F.2d 893, 908, there are key pieces of wording that give the TSA its power to search essentially any way they choose to. The key wording in this ruling includes “noting that airport screenings are considered to be administrative searches because they are conducted as part of a general regulatory scheme, where the essential administrative purpose is to prevent the carrying of weapons or explosives aboard aircraft.”

U.S. vs Davis goes onto to state “[an administrative search is allowed if] no more intrusive or intensive than necessary, in light of current technology, to detect weapons or explosives, confined in good faith to that purpose, and passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly.”

As you can see. The judge stated, you may avoid the search by electing not to fly.

[OmahaAudio]

What is unconstitutional is to demand that I give up certain rights in order to enter the airport. Bars and stuff like that is different. You are entering private property at that point. Airports like LAX or owned by the public. That's a different story.

State and Federal courthouses are owned by the public. So is the White House, the US Capitol, CIA headquarters, the Pentagon and every military base or facility in America. Are you demanding that there be free access to all of those places?

[dfisk]

You are aware that exposure to radiation of a scanner is the same as being exposed to 2miutes cosmic radiation that you are exposed to during the flight.

This isn't true, according to radiologists.

Are you aware the explosive fire that can be done by combining very small amounts of fluid?

Yes, but not in such a way as to be considered effective on a plane.

Do you think that terrorists wouldn't disguise themselves as pregnant women?

Pregnant white women with an infant? Nope. I don't think a bearded guy could pull it off. There is not one instance of this happening that I know of.

Or would you prefer to be blown out of the sky?

Fear mongering anyone?

Are you aware of the printer toner bombs they found?

Yup, and the fact that they didn't go off, and if they did they would not have blown a plane out of the sky. Oh...and pregnant women weren't carrying them. Nor were people in wheel chairs or the elderly.

You have the right to refuse being searched.

And the TSA can't force you to submit to a search or bodyscan, observing your 4th amendment rights.

At that point the TSA has the right to ask you to leave the airport.

This is true, but this is the illusion of a false choice. If I need to get to NYC for business from San Diego, what's the best way to go? I need to take a plane. Driving will take 4 to 5 days one way. So, in order to use time efficiently, I need to fly. Violating my 4th amendment right in order to have the privilege of flying is wrong.

Should you refuse. Then they have the right to detain you.

There is no reason to detail someone if they have done nothing wrong. Detaining someone unlawfully can result in litigation.

Ad yes, the TSA has every right to detain you. As they are part of Hoemand security but also, backin 1973 airport security checks were exempted from the 4th amendment rule.

And this is where they have over-stepped their boundaries. Go ahead. Put my bag through the x-ray machine. I don't care. I'll go through the metal detector. That's fine. I get that. But body scanners and pat downs? That's an invasion on my person, and that is unlawful, even though they get away with it.

So I guess you wouldn't have a problem if before you left for work, you home and car were searched. I guess you wouldn't have a problem if your phone calls were recorded and scrutinized...same with e-mails and social media. I guess you wouldn't have a problem with cops just stopping you randomly and look through your sound bag. Because it's all in the name of security.

[dfisk]

U.S. vs Davis goes onto to state “[an administrative search is allowed if] no more intrusive or intensive than necessary, in light of current technology, to detect weapons or explosives, confined in good faith to that purpose, and passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly.”

I'm sorry, but taking a naked scan of my body or touching my crotch is more invasive than is necessary. These are things that would get a private citizen thrown in jail.

[Jaymz]

What crap.

If it's such a "gun free zone" how do you explain the fact that all of the shooters weapons were legally purchased and owned by his mother?

It's referring to the actual places the attacks occurred being labelled "gun free zones" (schools etc).

Still.....dancing around the point that assault rifles have no place in a civilian home.

Fun fact of the day;

When the second amendment was written, the fastest rate of fire achievable with a smallarm was 4-6 rounds per minute (for rifles, around 2-3. Bar the Ferguson).

[dfisk]

State and Federal courthouses are owned by the public. So is the White House, the US Capitol, CIA headquarters, the Pentagon and every military base or facility in America. Are you demanding that there be free access to all of those places?

Yup. We paid for them. We should get to go in them whenever we want.

[Henchman]

Ah, I see. A now you are racially profiling.

"white women" .

You are also clearly oblivious when it comes to the liquid bombs and what the can do.

I suggest you read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_plot

And unfortunately for you, flying is most certainly not a right.

You have the right to travel freely . But the made of transportation is not a right.

The TSA most certainly has the right to refuse you entry.

It's not their problem if you need to get to San Diego.

And all of those last searches, have nothing to do with flying.

Try and keep on track.

[Henchman]

Yup. We paid for them. We should get to go in them whenever we want.

What you believe and what is reality, are two different things.

I'm sorry, but taking a naked scan of my body or touching my crotch is more invasive than is necessary. These are things that would get a private citizen thrown in jail.

And again. The naked scans are a thing of the past.

[Henchman]

And please post a link that states the research of the radiation levels of airport scaners

[dfisk]

And please post a link that states the research of the radiation levels of airport scaners

There is none, at least none that is accurate. Yes, the government produced their own "study", but any radiologist will tell you the amount of radiation they are claiming they are using is way to low to get the types of images they are getting.

Am I racial profiling? Not really. How many white female terrorists with infants have there been? Did I ever say flying was a right? I know I didn't. In fact I said I know it isn't a right. What I DID say is that violating my constitutional right in order to get on a plane is wrong. OK. That's twice I've said that now.

If you have no problem with getting groped at the airport, then you should have no problem having your home and car and person randomly searched. After all, you could be building a bomb in your garage, or transporting one in your car, or hiding one on you at any moment. It's not just planes, you know. Subways have been hit in England. Some dude put a bomb up is rear end once and exploded himself.

[Henchman]

There is none, at least none that is accurate.

Then it's just based on " I believe"

As is violating your constitutional right in order to get on a plane being wrong.

That's just what you believe.

[dfisk]

Then it's just based on " I believe"

As is violating your constitutional right in order to get on a plane being wrong.

That's just what you believe.

Did you not read everything I wrote? It's not what I believe, it's what actual doctors have said. Again, intrusive searches with not basis IS a violation of my constitutional rights. It's not a belief. It IS.

[Henchman]

No. It's what the believe, without research.

And those searches fall outside of your righs, as determined by the courts.

[Eric Toline]

It seems that Henchman has no problem with anything the government wants to do just so he can feel all warm & fuzzy. I believe Ben Franklin said it best: "Those who give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety."

Eric

[pindrop]

Henchman has been very patient and done a great job defending common sense from all kinds of cold and fuzzy thought ....

[afewmoreyears]

Henchman has been very patient and done a great job defending common sense from all kinds of cold and fuzzy thought ....

Common sense?.... The problem is, his way of thinking IS common... but lacking in any sense. correct words, incorrect usage. Merry Xmas.... Santa brought me a new Glock 26... Thank you Santa!!!!