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Having trouble removing red noise in closeups


rb1138
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Hey all,

Still asking sound editing questions. Izotope generally works pretty well when the camera's farther away. But sometimes, especially in "close ups" (tight shots in tight spaces, so not telephoto), the red noise is quite loud. Izotope cannot really eliminate it. But the issue is really that it's present in the closeups but not in the wide shot.

What should I do? Fill in red noise in the wide shot? I tried using Izotope in "multiple passes", but I don't think I know how this works. I just seem to add more artifacts. Are you supposed to do a new profile after you've reduced or keep reducing using the original profile.

Also, is there a way to save noise profiles in this program?

EDIT: EQ's not working either. The sound seems to be either all over the spectrum or especially a little under 1k, which we all know is around the voices.

Sawrab

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What should I do? Fill in red noise in the wide shot? I tried using Izotope in "multiple passes", but I don't think I know how this works. I just seem to add more artifacts. Are you supposed to do a new profile after you've reduced or keep reducing using the original profile.

Multiple passes - you perform multiple goes at removing the noise, focussing on certain frequencies each time, at a lower level of reduction (not 12dB of reduction each time - try starting at 3dB). And yes, you alter the noise profile each time.

If you can't get it all out, at least make it consistent shot to shot. Ambience added may bury it anyway.

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Did you try my suggestion elsewhere of trying the Gearslutz Forum?

At best, you can't ever get all the noise out, but I figure even knocking it down 50% and making it consistent might be a livable compromise.

Red Epic noise in small rooms with highly reflective walls and floors is a nightmare for which there is no cure -- beyond ADR or using a different camera.

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Try to negotiate a slower fan speed while rolling. If you are doing shortish takes it can go down to 35% or even 25% for sure. For longer takes.....it has to be higher to avoid having the camera override the speed setting when it gets hot.

+1 for multiple passes. You may just need more mojo than RX can deliver...like Cedar Cambridge.

philp

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Whatever you do, tell the producer and director how bad the situation is. Don't just fix it until it's "good enough" so they'll find it acceptable to repeat their mistake. Maybe on the next one they'll choose a different camera, or cut between takes to allow lower fan setting, or use longer lenses to allow the camera to be far enough away, etc.

Some of our biggest issues on set come from a skilled postie doing some special voodoo magic on their last project, and all of a sudden the producers and directors think everything on set is acceptable.

On the next one, they might not have the skill or time or money or tools in post to "fix" the sound to "good enough", and it'll just suck.

Robert

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I've yet to encounter a buzz or hum, that using various plugins you cant clean it up. First, notch filters,, eq, compander, cedar more eq.

That should do it.

You already know that the Red Epic fan noise problem is broadband and is more difficult to magically make go away without also taking a toll on dialogue. I know of a pretty major feature being worked on right this moment where they're struggling to notch out the noise with CEDAR DNS One (among other tools). It's much better once they get through with it, but not ideal. And this is a 3D project often shot with two cameras, meaning there are four Epic cameras in many scenes.

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Did you try my suggestion elsewhere of trying the Gearslutz Forum?

At best, you can't ever get all the noise out, but I figure even knocking it down 50% and making it consistent might be a livable compromise.

Red Epic noise in small rooms with highly reflective walls and floors is a nightmare for which there is no cure -- beyond ADR or using a different camera.

Thanks everybody. Right I checked out Gearslutz and they have info too. It's just that this site is so...neat. I mean it just appears that way, organization wise. And you guys are already so knowledgeable....

Indeed. It was in a teeny bathroom. Lots of reflective walls. Lavaliers were right at the throat. I used VT500s, too, which I read somewhere around this forum would help reject background noise. This was...somewhat true during some of the times I used them. But apparently not in this case.

Actually the issue is the sort-of red humming noise pumping in and out during the words. It's strange because it's not audible in the rest of the roomtone left over. The low frequencies of the red noise are probably not too audible coming in and out, but the humming noise.... I guess something like a notch filter to target it should improve it. Or maybe better use of Izotope in multiple passes

Try to negotiate a slower fan speed while rolling. If you are doing shortish takes it can go down to 35% or even 25% for sure. For longer takes.....it has to be higher to avoid having the camera override the speed setting when it gets hot.

+1 for multiple passes. You may just need more mojo than RX can deliver...like Cedar Cambridge.

philp

I think I might go over to the red forums to figure out what fan speeds are acceptable. In this case, the takes were pretty long. I bet they would've declined.... (sigh).

Cedar. Probably not an option for me. I guess if the sound went to someplace more professional after I did all the edits and crossfades I could do and also remove my crappy attempts at noise reduction, of course. In Pro Tools, I guess I'd roll back to a previous version before the damage was done (I make a lot of duplicates. Learned to do that after awhile).

When I first saw the topic heading for this I thought it said

"Having trouble removing red nose in close ups" :-)

Now that's a problem.

But seriously, though, I guess you could track it with a window in some...color correction program...?

Sawrab

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I successfully convinced a production not to use an Epic after explaining the fan noise to them. I did just do a production with an Epic, though, and it went fine. Fan noise during shooting was set to 25% and 75% when not rolling. Never had an issue, but was doing short takes in a large room. Sound like a real ADR situation that you are in. There was a post about some new Sony software called Spectral Layers you could check out. I have not used it myself, though.

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You know what I don't understand about today's cameras.

Why don't they have all the electronics in a separate box, that is attached to the lense via an umbilical.

This way they can have the fans whirring a way in a separate location.

I have a strong feeling there is a lot about cameras and electronics that eludes you. If you would like to make such a device I'm sure you will find a market for it.

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Technically it's not that hard... maybe some Peltier devices in the camera head, but the processing could easily be moved someplace else with a big heatsink and a small, quiet fan.

Operationally? Are you kidding? It takes them long enough to set up a conventional digital camera now. Imagine if there were two boxes with a heavy cable... and the DP would have to turn around to adjust the controls...

And cost, for what would never get the market penetration of all-in-one cameras?

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