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Setiquette: Wardrobe & Sound


syncsound

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" Finally, it isn’t your job. There will be at least three people scanning every pixel of the frame on a professional monitor. Trust me: if anything is even slightly amiss, they will let us know tout suite. When they do, they won’t say, “Hey, Wardrobe, we can see the mic.” They’ll say, “Hey, Sound, we can see the mic. "

actually, it is, wardrobe's job, as much as it is a sound job.

micing is something we work on together --often including hair and make-up as well.

ultimately it is up to the DP to buy off on it for visual, and often the village people get involved, but when they do call on sound to fix it, our experienced partners from other departments jump in at once. Experienced pros, working together.

So, while it was poor settiquette for wardrobe to unilaterally move the mic, it is part of their gig to notice it, at which point sound should have been brought over to deal with it together...

I've had this happen to me, and it was an inexperienced person working in wardrobe, who just moved the mic, and said nothing to anyone...

Edited by studiomprd
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Good to read you TT.

Hope all is well

Thanks man,

It's been a great non-secular holiday season thus far -- not a ton of work, but some on the horizon... in the meantime, much familial jubilation, and I'm up to my ears in Objective-C, xCode, iOS stuff for an app I'm developing. The learning curve is steep, but I'm inspired, and the payoff will be most gratifying.

But yeah, that's part of why I've been so scarce here. Thanks for your sentiment. I hope you're well, as well... as with all here on JWSound...

Cheers and here's to a happy and prosperous 2013!

~tt

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There was a story circulating on one of the boards a few years ago, when the B6 first came out. Somebody had miked talent who was wearing a patterned, open-weave sweater or jacket by sticking the capsule through, maybe 1/8". Not only didn't read to the camera; you hardly could see it with the naked eye.

First takes went fine.

Then the sound went dead. Mixer went crazy, checking receiver, transmitter, connections... only to find that the mic didn't exist any more!

Wardrobe: "I thought it was a loose piece of thread, so I snipped it off."

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...Then the sound went dead. Mixer went crazy, checking receiver, transmitter, connections... only to find that the mic didn't exist any more!

Wardrobe: "I thought it was a loose piece of thread, so I snipped it off."

I hate it when that happens. : /...

I guess the lesson to learn here is that interdepartmental communication and collaboration is not only wise, but a necessity.

~tt

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Wardrobe: "I thought it was a loose piece of thread, so I snipped it off."

Wow.

I can't stand it when wardrobe moves the mic ON PURPOSE and doesn't tell me what happened. I understand it might accidentally get moved/tugged when adjusting clothing, etc... but communication is key. I certainly would never go and adjust the wardrobe myself.

One time ACTION was called and the mic suddenly sounded beautiful (The whole show I had many issues getting a good sound with this particular piece of wardrobe.) After the take I went in to inspect the mount to see what magically solved my problems. The mic was hanging out of the shirt a good 6 inches, just flopped right out there hanging in the air. Of course it sounded great!

It was the end of a long day, I wasn't able to get a video feed to my monitor, and my boom op was behind the talent so he couldn't see. I guess no one on set saw it either. It was a B6 on a dark shirt on a shadowy set, and the folks in village must have been dozing. I asked the actor what happened and he didn't even notice, but said wardrobe was just fixing his buttons. Wardrobe was apologetic and said she meant to tell me but "forgot", but ever since then her communication dramatically increased for the rest of the show.

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I know it has been said so many times before, but filmmaking is truly a collaborative effort. I can't tell you how many times I have had wardrobe give me a heads-up on a challenging outfit and it gave me a little extra time to find a solution. The good ones factor in hiding mics into their wardrobe design. They consider it a part of their craft.

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Spoiler alert, the film "Zero Dark Thirty," is a tie knot bulge fest, most embarrassing in my opinion. Tie knots only bulge when mics are present, a little more work, should have made those bulges smaller, in my opinion.

Ouch! The Prod.Mixer who did this movie got the Oscar for Bigelow's "The Hurt Locker"

I guess we all get bad days ( or maybe different crew members?)!!

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I know it has been said so many times before, but filmmaking is truly a collaborative effort. I can't tell you how many times I have had wardrobe give me a heads-up on a challenging outfit and it gave me a little extra time to find a solution. The good ones factor in hiding mics into their wardrobe design. They consider it a part of their craft.

A pet peeve of mine is when the costumer, in front of the talent, announces "I don't know how you're going to hide a mic in this outfit". Those first few moments when talent is not at ease yet and we're getting our first look at an outfit is not the best time for a deflating comment.

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So, while it was poor settiquette for wardrobe to unilaterally move the mic, it is part of their gig to notice it

I don't necessarily agree with that - and have had occasion to explain that, for starters, the human eye is the best lens on the market - and just because they can stare, "zoomed in", at a non-moving chest and see something, does not mean that it will be the least bit visible from the distance, while in action / motion.

In essence, if anyone has to freeze the frame and zoom in to see my mic - I WIN.

If someone on the team has done the mic-ing, I always try to check on it before we roll.

Lav experience in this market is somewhat varied.

If it happens more than once - a quick trip to the director or the producer usually solves the problem.

Their interests lie in good sound and keeping on schedule, which will trump fashion any time.....

If it doesn't, which is so rare I can't remember losing on one of these - well, they powers to be have "signed off" on it,

and ce la vie.

MF

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Spoiler alert, the film "Zero Dark Thirty," is a tie knot bulge fest, most embarrassing in my opinion. Tie knots only bulge when mics are present, a little more work, should have made those bulges smaller, in my opinion.

Jeesh, Don't be such a weenie -

I saw the movie, and never once was affected by that - because it sounded great to me.

Kudos to the crew for the excellent soundtrack, and kudos to the wardrobe department for working with them to achieve it.

Save for a sound person or a wardrobe person, who in the hell would give a ***t how the tie knot is.

If the audience is focused on that in any movie, than the film has far greater problems - which of course this one does not have.

MF

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" the human eye is the best lens on the market "

the DP (and her/his masters) has the final say on if it is OK...

I don't consider it as an adversarial relationship, we are all making the same movie...

sometimes the wardrobe department is a bit less experienced...

they need to know, or learn, that if there is a problem, they call on us. likewise it is always a good idea for us to be sure they know where are mic's are...

it's all about communication and teamwork...

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The name calling seems to be a trend, and from what i've seen here and heard of other boards it isn't very new or uncommon. This does not justify it. While I feel like it's acceptable to critique another persons body of work or written comments made here, I don't think it's ever necessary to resort to personal attacks.

Lets try to be as professional on these forums as we are on set. I doubt you'd openly call anyone a weenie at work, let alone your fellow peers.

Many people here have strong feelings towards one another whether good or bad. It's not each persons job to point out in a public forum how we feel about each other though. Personal messages might be a better tool for such conversations.

Back to the topic - I've had a few times that wardrobe has made my job a lot easier by cutting holes into their clothing or even letting me know when the microphone was moved. I feel like it's our responsibility and not theirs to make sure the mic is properly managed, and it becomes a bonus when they help with details.

I haven't seen Zero Dark Thirty yet so I don't know if the knots in the tie would bother me, but I might not have noticed it given the lack of microphones I've placed in ties.

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I'm so very sorry, Mr. Filosa. While I was merely offering my opinion, and offered others including yourself, to attack my work, you choose to take the opportunity to call me childish names.

It's comments like this that make me realize how far removed from this community that I really am.

You obviously record sound for the layperson, while I prefer to be judged by my peers.

Thank you for your comments and opinion.

I loved Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Sounded great. How did you pull it off with a lot of scenes next to the ocean?

And I guess Anerican Beauty didn't sound bad either :P

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If an audience starts worrying about a knot in a tie then IMHO there is something drastically wrong with the script.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s.

yeah that´s the excuse one tends to make ;-) I really like it when I see actors wearing a tie and DON´T see the obvious gap in the knot we all are know from our own work. Then I think - damn how did they pull that one off??

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If an audience starts worrying about a knot in a tie then IMHO there is something drastically wrong with the script.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s.

I am sorry, but if this is the way to be, i would not be here in India with all this gear and working as a production sound mixer. I dont work for the audience, i work for myself. period.

Out here i dont get 1/10th of the support from other departments (wardrobe/costume, lighting, production, direction, add what you want to this list).

-vin

BOMBAY, INDIA

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My point, Mr. Davies, is that a bulge in a tie knot is only obvious to two types of audience members, both professionals, not your average moviegoer. Those two members would be costumers and sound professionals, not the layperson, if they're taken out of the movie going experience for whatever reason, then I agree with you, the problem lies elsewhere.

As an example, while watching and listening to 'ZDT,' I see the actor Mark Strong come onto the screen, as I stated before I've worked with Mr. Strong and therefore have a different take on what his voice sounds like, than the general public might. At first I'm taken by the accent Mr. Strong is using, an American accent, then I'm taken by the quality of the voice recording, which again in my opinion wasn't clear.

As a sound mixer, my thoughts then trail off to how was the scene recorded, because I heard Ms. Bigelow firsthand state that she shoots with four cameras per set up at times, I assume that the production sound crew has chosen to employ wireless microphones of the lavalier type. If the actors are wearing ties, I further assume that the lavaliers might be deployed in the tie knots, as I know this to be a good spot for placement. When my eyes look to the tie knots and can clearly see a bulge, I feel that the sound crew has compromised the costume of the actor, again this is merely my opinion.

As I stated before, I like to be judged by my peers, and if I can make my work as seamless and unobtrusive as possible, then I feel like I've done a good job. If we're only to be concerned with the judgment of the "general public," then why hide a lavalier at all? I really don't understand this new habit of concealment of a lavalier on a documentary, or interview, show. Next will we see our local newscasters with "hidden mics" and be subjected to hearing clothing rustle along with our news?

Here's an example of where I failed in the concealment of a lavalier. The scene is from the film, "Body of Lies," the actor Mark Strong is playing the head of Jordanian intelligence. We were struggling with wind noise coming across the head of the microphone, and so the "bulge" in the tie knot was getting bigger and bigger. Watch at the end of the scene, as Karami rides off on his bicycle, Mark Strong is in profile and you can see the "bulge," and as he turns to Leo DiCaprio, the sunlight cast a shadow from where the lavalier is placed. If you want to skip ahead, the moment happens at 3:42 in the clip I found on youtube.

We've all seen worse then that, RVD. I understand where you're coming from, though. It's often those little things that will hang on our own judgment. We judge ourselves on transparency, and that includes placement. I'd rather they(our peers) wonder where and how, over the obvious "bulge". Considering the conditions, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself.

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If an audience starts worrying about a knot in a tie then IMHO there is something drastically wrong with the script.

I have had several major editors, post-production supervisors, and even studio execs stop me from fixing something in post and telling me, "Marc, if our audience is noticing something as subtle as that, then we have major problems far beyond what you're trying to fix."

Then again, there have been occasions where I've pointed out an issue that was obvious to me, and the director stared at the monitor, wide-eyed, and said, "jesus! I've seen this scene about 189 times and never noticed that problem before!" So sometimes it's a forest and trees issue.

I can see the lav bulge in the example shown by Mr. Clark above, but it doesn't kill me. I'm always amazed by directors who can ignore major flaws in a scene (performance or technical), but go nuts about something very subtle. Everybody has a different priority list. In the long run, I'm not sure what's most important, but I usually try to defend my point of view by saying, "hey, if I can see it, anybody can see it." But if it was already shot and in the can, they have to just let it go -- CG won't fix a problem like this, and one hopes the audience is glued to the actor's face.

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If I see that kind of tie bulge or etc then I usually figure that given the very high average quality of sound mixers on movies these days that was the way they had to go to get the shot, it probably wasn't an oversight, it might be a "lost battle" or etc. They got the shot, the shot's in the film (so it WAS important) and they resolved to do better the next day I figure. And who am I to argue with K. Bigelow's M.O.? If she wants an all radio show with a zillion cameras never cutting and "Friday Night Lights-ing" all over the place then that's what the soundies deal with. Hopefully they have help/buy in/slack from the other depts.--I'm betting they do.

philp

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