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How Can I Run Audio from Board into a 5D?


Mike Wally

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I am shooting a little event where they will be using a Canon 5D Mark II to roam around and record a bunch of dogs at a small show where they come up and talk about their dogs and why they should be in the show.

There will be a microphone from the House, and they have a board they run it out of.

I would think the easy thing would be to use an eight-inch to XLR and plug into the camera that way with manual control on so that the boar was mixing the audio.

If i don't have access to the board, do I run it through my Nomad and then try and plug into the camera?

Do I use my ERX to send a hop from the board (going into my mixer) and through ZaxNet send the Hop to the 5D?

I'm not really sure what to do here. Any idea's would help. Thank you :)

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Read the Canon 5D Mark II user manual.

Why?

So you will know what the input requirements are for the camera.

Thank you so much for the reply! :D

The 5D has an eight inch "mic" input, and the 5D does allow you to turn off Auto Gain Control and set it to "Manual". Unlike the Mark III, you can't monitor audio on it, though.

It's not my choice to use a DSLR for audio, it's the producers. I just got asked how I would run sound into it, so I was hoping to get some ideas based off of that.

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Thank you so much for the reply! :D

The 5D has an eight inch "mic" input, and the 5D does allow you to turn off Auto Gain Control and set it to "Manual". Unlike the Mark III, you can't monitor audio on it, though.

It's not my choice to use a DSLR for audio, it's the producers. I just got asked how I would run sound into it, so I was hoping to get some ideas based off of that.

There's been a lot of discussion on this in the past. Do some quality searching on this forum via Google and you should find a good bit of worthwhile of advice.

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Mike,

Send a scratch mix to the 5D with a Senn. G2 wireless system... mic level., set cam to manual... or if you want to hardwire, send a mic level that way... Let them Plural eyes it, or use a TC slate, that with the clap and they should have all they could possibly need...

DEFINITLY DOUBLE SYSTEM!!!! PERIOD!!!!

And yes, read up.... this should get you started...

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Mike,

Send a scratch mix to the 5D with a Senn. G2 wireless system... mic level., set cam to manual... or if you want to hardwire, send a mic level that way... Let them Plural eyes it, or use a TC slate, that with the clap and they should have all they could possibly need...

DEFINITLY DOUBLE SYSTEM!!!! PERIOD!!!!

And yes, read up.... this should get you started...

Yea, probably just going to do this with one of my g3's. Thank you :)

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At the risk of telling you how to do something that you should know before accepting this job...

If you don't have access to the board, how do you plan on getting audio from their microphone or the people speaking?

Is their microphone wired or wireless? Depending on which they are using you have different options.

The 5D is a POS camera, especially when it comes to audio which, you know, is only half of a production. You have to run double system as the above folks pointed out. And you have to charge for that gear. Because they are using a 5D it requires you to use an separate audio recorder and to charge for your mixer and recorder. If you aren't sure what to charge check out your friendly, neighborhood audio rental company and what they charge for a Nomad. Did I mention you need to charge for the recorder? And the wireless? Just making sure you know to charge for the mixer and recorder. Don't give it away. If you don't charge for it I'm going to invoice you the next time a producer tells me "gee, the last guy didn't charge us when we shot on a 5D and he provided a separate recorder."

Syncing audio is part of their work flow if they choose to shoot on a 5D. You can make it easy and painless by using a timecode slate which, of course, you will charge for. If you are unsure of this, see above. You jam the slate from your recorder, the camera op shoots a few seconds of the rolling numbers (because you will be running TOD) and WHAM! The editor has all they need to sync the audio to the video. When the camera op fails to shoot the slate you smack them and make a note for the editor that they frequently didn't shoot the slate. Zaxcom even has a handy, dandy feature on the Nomad where the numbers flip around and a camera op can shoot your recorder as a slate. I'm sure you knew that. By the way, do you know what frame rate they'll be shooting at? Do they know what frame rate they'll be shooting at? Do they know what timecode is?

Any audio you send to camera is a scratch track. Don't worry about sending two channels to camera. It's a scratch track. A mono channel is sufficient because you will be recording double system (and charging for it, right?).

Can you speak with their FOH mixer prior to the event? Play nice with the other kids in the sandbox and I'm sure they'll give you access to everything you need.

Have fun and don't let any of the dogs pee on your foot!

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" How Can I Run Audio from Board into a 5D? "

" At the risk of telling you how to do something that you should know before accepting this job... "

tells me there is a lack of experience here...

thus there is a certain dichotomy with some of the admonitions about charging enough

" And you have to charge for that gear " that the OP doesn't seem to either have, or understand.

OK, maybe charge the rentals, but heavily discount the labor ??

" Eighth Inch...wow, typing fail. "

twice...

Edited by studiomprd
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" How Can I Run Audio from Board into a 5D? "

" At the risk of telling you how to do something that you should know before accepting this job... "

tells me there is a lack of experience here...

thus there is a certain dichotomy with some of the admonitions about charging enough

" And you have to charge for that gear " that the OP doesn't seem to either have, or understand.

OK, maybe charge the rentals, but heavily discount the labor ??

" Eighth Inch...wow, typing fail. "

twice...

Senator, not only did you misinterpret most of what I wrote you also quoted me out of context. Nothing new from you, however.

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Right. Thank you all for the kind and kind of demeaning words. It's to be expected when you make a simple spelling error on the internet, my deepest apologies again if I offended anyone.

Let me try this again, since apparently some of my point was missed when I was asking my inquiry.

I know how to charge for equipment. I know what my current kit is worth, and how much rentals cost for everything typically needed.

Back to my actual questions, and I'm sorry again for not being more clear;

I will have access to the board. The house will have a simple wireless handheld mic that the talent will hold up to the contestants The handheld mic will be transmitting to the board, which will be plugged into the PA system. They have the ability to give me a direct feed/line out of the mixer. I don't know the exact model. I will try and find out, and get as much information as possible but assume it's an XLR output.

My question was, do I use that feed THROUGH my 6-Track Recorder/Mixer? Or should I just simply run it to the camera, and "mix" from the board to make sure the levels are ok. Is there anything LOST when going out of one mixer, into my recorder, and then onto the camera?

Part two - Mixer/Recorder into Camera.

I have a few options here. With the DSLR, I have limited options in terms of sending a wireless hop, which will end up being scratch anyway. That means that I'd need to slate each time the camera rolls or records. I know exactly how much a smart slate is per day, and using it effectively would require a way to sync timecode to the camera itself, and the 5D has no way to receive that other than audio timecode, which is rogue at best and defeats the purpose of scratch audio.

I have my ERX, which transmits audio through zaxnet as a viable scratch. I also have 3 g3 wireless sets that I could use to do it as well. Any thoughts on this?

The alternative is to convince the producers to get an actual ENG camera, like the EX-3, and run a hard wire from either the MIXER BOARD, or my Nomad, and just have someone wrangle the cable and follow the camera man around. I'm going to try for that, but there isn't much budget for this and I'm trying to do it as a favor for the organization which helps raise money for the dogs.

I'm going to try very hard to get in there before the event, but doubt I'll have any luck. Obviously that would be very ideal. I know how much I hate using DSLR's as ENG camera's, but of course the producer owns one and of course wants to use one. I will try and explain to him that the cost of getting a working sound rig is worth about the same price as just renting the camera. He won't listen, of course and want to use his 5D (which I'm explaining he'd need a handheld rig and follow focus to do the style he wants anyway).

I had ideas of how to do it this, and know what I can and can't do if it came down to just me. I figured I'd ask the community of people who also do this for a living and see if maybe I missed something.

thank you, happy new years everyone.

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" I know exactly how much a smart slate is per day, and using it effectively would require a way to sync timecode to the camera itself, "

no matter how much a smart slate rents for, it can be used effectively with any camera, especially those with no way to sync timecode to the camera itself... it was done for years with completely non-TC film cameras... the TC slate is the way to sync timecode to the media (camera) itself!

although I'm hearing a lot of toys mentioned, the original question, and " Is there anything LOST when going out of one mixer, into my recorder, and then onto the camera? " doesn't give me a feeling of an experienced professional approach... nor does " there isn't much budget for this and I'm trying to do it as a favor " and the comments about the producer (director, DP, wunderkind ?) aren't encouraging...

" There will be a microphone from the House, "

arrange to have your own RX for this mic...

or double up on the mic's and have your own, plus the house mic's in front of the person speaking

Edited by studiomprd
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An actual ANSWER to your questions:

1. Is there anything LOST when going out of one mixer, into my recorder, and then onto the camera?

No, though you may find you need to add more gain than normal. Lots of live sound is run much lower than you are probably used to. There may be an option on the mixer to boost the direct out (or more likely an AUX bus) that you're getting your feed from, but don't count on it. Also, there's an excellent chance it WON'T be on XLR so have some adaptors handy.

2. I have my ERX, which transmits audio through zaxnet as a viable scratch. I also have 3 g3 wireless sets that I could use to do it as well. Any thoughts on this?

Personally, I would take the feed from the desk, run it through the mixer/recorder (did I read Nomad?), and either use the ERX or G3 to run a scratch track to the camera. Forget putting TC on the DSLR's, it's possible but IMO not worth it - I would also not bother with the timecode slate.

Use blasts of tone, or some other audible sync point to give PluralEyes (or an editor) something to latch on to. If you're using a Nomad, it might be a good chance to make use of the built-in slate - provided your camera is willing to / can point at you at the start of every take. It's low budget, if they are shooting on a 5D it means they won't pay for a full TC slate and you shouldn't have to either - don't make yourself the charity case.

In my experience, the G3 will have better range than the ERX if the camera guy wanders off (unless you're using a 2.4Ghz amp) and sounds as good if not better. Also, forget using the DSLR as your primary audio, make sure you record it yourself.

Good luck.

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An actual ANSWER to your questions:

1. Is there anything LOST when going out of one mixer, into my recorder, and then onto the camera?

No, though you may find you need to add more gain than normal. Lots of live sound is run much lower than you are probably used to. There may be an option on the mixer to boost the direct out (or more likely an AUX bus) that you're getting your feed from, but don't count on it. Also, there's an excellent chance it WON'T be on XLR so have some adaptors handy.

2. I have my ERX, which transmits audio through zaxnet as a viable scratch. I also have 3 g3 wireless sets that I could use to do it as well. Any thoughts on this?

Personally, I would take the feed from the desk, run it through the mixer/recorder (did I read Nomad?), and either use the ERX or G3 to run a scratch track to the camera. Forget putting TC on the DSLR's, it's possible but IMO not worth it - I would also not bother with the timecode slate.

Use blasts of tone, or some other audible sync point to give PluralEyes (or an editor) something to latch on to. If you're using a Nomad, it might be a good chance to make use of the built-in slate - provided your camera is willing to / can point at you at the start of every take. It's low budget, if they are shooting on a 5D it means they won't pay for a full TC slate and you shouldn't have to either - don't make yourself the charity case.

In my experience, the G3 will have better range than the ERX if the camera guy wanders off (unless you're using a 2.4Ghz amp) and sounds as good if not better. Also, forget using the DSLR as your primary audio, make sure you record it yourself.

Good luck.

Sorry yes, I have a Nomad-6. Thank you, that was what I was hoping to hear. I will see what I can do to make this work best, thank you for understanding my position.

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Happy New Year!

Degrading sound quality by going from the board through the nomad to the camera is a non-issue, as the camera audio is only a scratch track. I strongly second the senator's advice to get a receiver which is compatible with the mic at the venue. Then you can forget about the board. Forget about TC, too, let PluralEyes do its stuff. The DP will most likely forget about shooting your recorder, eventually.

Or you could send TC from the nomad to the cam via the G3s. Make sure beforehand the editor knows how to handle that, though

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Whoa... tough crowd around here! th_smiley-scared003.gif

Good comments from Justin above.

I agree with Justin and Marc. Keep it as simple as possible, especially since its low budget and done as a favor primarily. The output of the board will likely be 1/4 inch TRS if you're using an aux out. If you get a pre fader aux feed you should be able to control the level to your Nomad independently. The G3 would give you more range as you're going to be staying near the board. Success will depend on having all the right cables/adaptors/pads to get the correct levels to all the items in the signal chain.

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