Sebben Posted January 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Whoa. Do they usually just ADR everything with IMAX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) " The aforementioned TLM102 is, in my opinion, way inferior. " I'd argue with that statement, because it is a very different microphone, for different usage. (BTW, I actually tried one as a boom mic for interviews; the director liked the look of it in the b-roll " Microphones are arriving in a few weeks " I see you have switched to Schoeps... sounds like you have already ordered your golf clubs... guess what you really wanted was our approval of them..?? OK: those will be fine! " Whoa. Do they usually just ADR everything with IMAX? " sometimes... it depends! Edited January 8, 2013 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Whoa. Do they usually just ADR everything with IMAX? I think he was trying to get the most intelligible guide tracks he could to help the ADR process. I doubt you could use any of the sound near those monsters. Maybe you'll find something that helps you? http://soundandpicture.com/issues/ Go crazy! Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebben Posted January 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 " The aforementioned TLM102 is, in my opinion, way inferior. " I'd argue with that statement, because it is a very different microphone, for different usage. (BTW, I actually ytird one as a boom mic for interviews; the director liked the look of it in the b-roll I am glad to hear that. Looks matter. Lavs are ugly and look like news reports. " Microphones are arriving in a few weeks " I see you have switched to Schoeps... sounds like you have already ordered your golf clubs... guess what you really wanted was our approval of them..?? OK: those will be fine! Not approval. Just wondering if I missed anything. But thanks, I feel warm and fuzzy. " Whoa. Do they usually just ADR everything with IMAX? " sometimes... it depends! yay! Maybe you'll find something that helps you? http://soundandpicture.com/issues/ Go crazy! Sawrab Awesome! Thank you. This will be really really helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 " look like news reports. " in many countries the news readers still have desk mic's, and the TLM is a fine example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 " The aforementioned TLM102 is, in my opinion, way inferior. " I'd argue with that statement, because it is a very different microphone, for different usage. (BTW, I actually ytird one as a boom mic for interviews; the director liked the look of it in the b-roll I am glad to hear that. Looks matter. Lavs are ugly and look like news reports. And I am surprised to hear that. Since when do looks matter for us soundies? Let the other guys worry about that. Bit I'm sure that's not all the senator was alluding to. Technically and sonically, there is a lot to argue about, but maybe not in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Awesome! Thank you. This will be really really helpful. Here read this for more about dynamic mikes Go over to Gearslutz. You might annoy them too with this kind of question but they do know their gear. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 " Since when do looks matter for us soundies? " when the mic will be in the picture! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 " Since when do looks matter for us soundies? " when the mic will be in the picture! Then it matters to the director, maybe the dp and maybe to someone else. To me, still only sound matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 " To me, still only sound matters " OK BTW: to many of us, those quality LDC mic's can sound terrific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 " BTW: to many of us, those quality LDC mic's can sound terrific Sure, to me as well! That's partly the reason for their success, they can sound good. Technically, though, I stand by my earlier comment. Besides, in this thread, we were referring only the TLM102. Personally, I am just not thrilled by the sound of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebben Posted January 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I quite liked it, especially considering the price. Sure, you can get better but for me it is at the point of expensive diminishing returns. And just for the record I am not looking for approval https://vimeo.com/43111661 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafaeldelauz Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I do this quite often, also I find using the room tone under the voice helps to smooth things out, especially on edits. I guess my philosophy is to try and get the cleanest sound on capture, rather than try to make things a bit better in post. Ok, so usually the situation is the people I am interviewing are making/creating things. This is usually one day shoots, with everything done on location. So we need shots of the person introducing themselves to the camera to establish the scene in which they work, and also to establish the sound of the place that the audio is recorded. After that, their interview is basically narration for the rest of the footage, and we don't see them speaking again. This is why I am thinking that switching a microphone to one suited for recording voice from close range could work. The sound would change, but it perhaps it wont be to noticeable, as is would still share the same atmosphere. Has anyone tried anything like this? I will look into B6s and see what the deal is. Sebben, I just do sound for documentaries, no documentaries/reality, just documentaries, I work with Neumann mics too, and this situation you are describing is no new for anybody here. There is no real difference at the screen between interviewing somebody doing something, or shooting a medium shot of an actor while he is doing something else. The only difference between documentary and fiction, for our work, are rehearsals and salaries. The film still needs to sound great in a documentary because you can't subtitle the film saying "this sound like shit because we didn't scout properly" You still have to make it work somehow. You got a lot of great advises here already, do some research, and listen to the people here, they have great experience and generosity to share their knowledge with you. As some people have suggested maybe you want to consider if this was the right question to ask. Maybe is better to ask them how they try to get the lav affect in noisy locations, without a lav, instead of which piece of gear will do the magic. They all have been there, they all have found great solutions and they all want to share them (their only reason to write every night in this forum) but nobody can't tell you that the solutions is buying this XYZ mic, because it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 ... I see that JB is finally getting it... ... I beg your pardon. If I'm the JB you're speaking about, please save your patronizing attitude for clueless newbies who'll put up with that kind of crap. If it wasn't me you were speaking about -- please ignore this message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 You seem not to like the sound of lavs. Me too. Maybe you'll like the DPA lavs better. Me? No, I consider lavs a necessary evil, and I think they can sound perfectly acceptable in some situations. For interviews, they're fine. I consider CBS-TV's 60 Minutes to be the gold standard in TV interviews for the past 40 years, and I'm pretty sure they've used lavs for 90% of their sitdown interviews. (Arnold Schwarzenegger on a recent 60 Minutes interview, with a COS-11 mike on his lapel.) And in a noisy environment, I think the lavs can eliminate about 30% of the room noise just by proximity. The rest you can minimize with careful post, like the use of iZotope RX and similar NR programs. I am glad to hear that. Looks matter. Lavs are ugly and look like news reports. You assume 1) that visible lav microphones are noticeable by anybody, and 2) that lavs can't be hidden. I continue to believe that audiences in a documentary situation do not care about visible or invisible microphones. If the documentary is done well, all they'll see is the subject's face and hear their words. Buying a microphone based mostly on appearance is nutty, in my opinion. Having said that, I go out of my way to make the lavs as unobtrusive as possible, and have both black and white-colored lavs, opting to use whichever is least visible in any situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebben Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Maybe is better to ask them how they try to get the lav affect in noisy locations, without a lav, instead of which piece of gear will do the magic. They all have been there, they all have found great solutions and they all want to share them (their only reason to write every night in this forum) but nobody can't tell you that the solutions is buying this XYZ mic, because it's not. Yes, this is essentially the question I am asking. I just assume that the recording starts with the microphone and then you build it up around that. I am a little perplexed why some of the response is so vicious. If this is all so offensive then just pass this thread by. Apart from that, this has been a very constructive discussion for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebben Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Buying a microphone based mostly on appearance is nutty, in my opinion. Having said that, I go out of my way to make the lavs as unobtrusive as possible, and have both black and white-colored lavs, opting to use whichever is least visible in any situation. Please don´t take the appearance part to seriously. There are cases when visually it is nice to have microphone in the frame that conveys a certain mood. It is a form of prop that needs to be considered. Regarding lavs, I will defiantly look into some more. And hopefully find some techniques for attaching them really quickly in an unobtrusive and comfortable way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 How about this: Try to kill the problem by its root and move to a different, i.e. more quiet location if possible. If your productions are small crew shoots this should be an option more often than one would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 This whole topic has danced around some pretty fundamental principles and has been somewhat confused and twisted about primarily because of the numerous references to "lav sound" or the "lav effect". When having to record voice in noisy environments, a lavaliere microphone's greatest benefit comes from its position: physical proximity to the source you want to record (the voice). Why talk about wanting to achieve the "lav sound" without using a lav? How about talking, as many have done here, about how to record good sound in noisy environment using whatever technique has consistently produced good result. Seems pretty fundamental to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebben Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Sure, without knowing the jargon it is hard to ask for specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 No need for jargon here... we're talking about very simple common sense layman's physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebben Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 How about this: Try to kill the problem by its root and move to a different, i.e. more quiet location if possible. If your productions are small crew shoots this should be an option more often than one would think. This is what we do most often. And in this way reduce unwanted sounds as much as possible. I will start working with the off camera interview technique and move the microphones as close as I can to the talents mouth and see how things improve for us. No need for jargon here... we're talking about very simple common sense layman's physics. I am literally all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 and move the microphones as close as I can to the talents mouth and see how things improve for us. But not too close. The objective is not to get the mic as close as possible to the speaker's mouth. Rather it is about finding the spot where it'll sound best and where the speaker feels sufficiently at ease. I am literally all ears. If you are a bit eyes too, read through this thread again and you will find all the answers you could want and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 A lav clipped to a shirt or jacket just below the frame is a good technique for getting clean sound and not seeing the mic. In the wider shot, the mic will be less noticeable (especially if it is small like a B6 and even better...color coordinated) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 This is not intended as one of the "vicious" comments that the O.P. laments, but I do get the impression that Sebben is more interested in talking about the subject than in learning about the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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