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Is It Goodbye For Thunderbolt?


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With very few people having bought into Thunderbolt this may well be the demise.

Superspeed USB 3

"USB 3.0 will be encroaching on Thunderbolt's territory with support for external devices that require high-speed data rates like SSDs and secondary monitors."

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/01/07/superspeed-usb-30-to-rival-thunderbolt-speeds-in-2014

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The fact that Thunderbolt is also for monitors was clever. Even if I never *need* a thunderbolt drive, I can use it for a display.

When Firewire first shipped on Macs, it was the same thing. The masses didn't need it, but people moving huge amounts of data were doing the math and grinning at how much transfer time they would save.

A 30meter optical thunderbolt cable is huge for people moving a ton of data (editing suites).

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wait a minute, "The new spec enhanced SuperSpeed USB 3.0 spec should deliver a 10 Gbps data rate -- the same as current Thunderbolt connectors -- though don't expect it any time soon. The new protocol should be finalized sometime in 2013, with initial products featuring the connector appearing in late-2014 or 2015, reports CNET."

So in 2 years USB3 is planning to hit what Thunderbolt has been doing already.... in the meantime the optical Thunderbolt cables have been approved and will be insanely fast. It also requires a new version of a USB3 connector, so the currently enable USB3 gear won't be compatible with the new USB3 connector. argh.

wait a minute, "The new spec enhanced SuperSpeed USB 3.0 spec should deliver a 10 Gbps data rate -- the same as current Thunderbolt connectors -- though don't expect it any time soon. The new protocol should be finalized sometime in 2013, with initial products featuring the connector appearing in late-2014 or 2015, reports CNET."

So in 2 years USB3 is planning to hit what Thunderbolt has been doing for well over a year now.... in the meantime the optical Thunderbolt cables have been approved and will be insanely fast. It also requires a new version of a USB3 connector, so the currently enable USB3 gear won't be compatible with the new USB3 connector. argh.

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It also requires a new version of a USB3 connector, so the currently enable USB3 gear won't be compatible with the new USB3 connector. argh.

?? Not how I read it:

However, the new version of USB 3.0 uses the same connectors, so existing USB devices can be plugged into the higher-speed ports.

They did mention that existing USB3.0 cables might not be capable of double speed.

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I use thunderbolt for video output, both as a generic monitor, plus as a Pro Tool video playout with a Black Magic UltraStudio Mini Monitor. I don't have any Thunderbolt HDD, but if I did, I would definitely use that over firewire. As it is, the TB to FW adapter works just fine. The perceived issue that I have with USB, is that it is an intermediate transport layer that has to be dealt with above and beyond TB, as TB is more or less a native way to access the PCIe lanes from the motherboard and bridge controllers.

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Tom's clear observation above, the fundamental differences between Thunderbolt, Firewire and anything USB, seem to be ignored in so many of the discussions. Most discussions seem to focus only on rated speed and little else. Also, most discussions descend rapidly into conversations that inevitably involve some sort of Apple bashing or implication that this new data transmission protocol is somehow doomed because Apple is pushing it.

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I use thunderbolt for video output, both as a generic monitor, plus as a Pro Tool video playout with a Black Magic UltraStudio Mini Monitor. I don't have any Thunderbolt HDD, but if I did, I would definitely use that over firewire. As it is, the TB to FW adapter works just fine. The perceived issue that I have with USB, is that it is an intermediate transport layer that has to be dealt with above and beyond TB, as TB is more or less a native way to access the PCIe lanes from the motherboard and bridge controllers.

As Tom illustrated, in my mind, this is how FireWire and now Thunderbolt was designed to be used, geared for the pro and semi-pro. With TB's next promised speed increase (100Gbps if I remember correctly; not that 10Gbps is anything to sneeze at), lower overhead, longer cable runs (with fiber), and more juice for bus-powered devices, these are obvious one ups for TB on our end and will hopefully trickle down to the consumer side to bolster available product lines and lower cost. But if Apple/Intel do not play this right it will be another round of FW vs USB with a handful of us willing to argue for one vs the other. FW could have been the continued top technology with the higher specs that never made it out of the labs or the military ie the unreleased 1.6 and 3.2 Gbps versions back in 2007-ish with backwards compatibility.

Either way, it's just like anything else involving technology, you buy what you need for the intended purpose at that time knowing that what you bought was outdated when it went into manufacturing. And the flame wars with tech will continue because marketing loves to wow us with specs and we as consumer keep lining up for the next round.

They are talking 2015 for release? A lot can change in 2 years.

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Isn't the USB 3.0 still double the size of a thunderbolt connector?

I have one drive with USB3 and the plug *sorta* looks like a smaller HDMI plug with a crimp in it. wide and flat compared to a little Thunderbolt square. Not a significant difference unless you have a specific need I guess.

I have a Mac Mini at home and I use Thunderbolt (with an adapter) to connect to my ViewSonic display, and I use the HDMI out to feed a TV. Before Thunderbolt, that same plug was used for DisplayPort, so there were already all sorts of monitor adapters when Thunderbolt itself started shipping in 2011.

"And because Thunderbolt is based on DisplayPort technology, the video standard for high-resolution displays, any Mini DisplayPort display plugs right into the Thunderbolt port. To connect a DisplayPort, DVI, HDMI, or VGA display, just use an existing adapter."

http://www.apple.com/thunderbolt/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks, Matt, good article. Particularly some of the comments that help put into historical perspective many of the connections, ports and data protocols that have been introduced in the past. I think that lots of people who want to bash Apple put the "blame" for Thunderbolt's slow adoption rate entirely on Apple. It must be remembered that Thunderbolt is an Intel product and Apple was just the first, and most visible, adopter.

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It must be remembered that Thunderbolt is an Intel product and Apple was just the first, and most visible, adopter.

 

This was a big topic at CES this year. 

 

Apple is the most visible adopter of Thunderbolt technology because they (at least tried to) purchase & claim proprietary ownership, so that it would be an Apple-only connection.  Add this to their already long list of legal issues.

 

I feel like the newest USB 3.0 will eventually become the general standard, especially when the new specs are implemented. All the red tape that Apple caused led to very limited options to manufacture TBolt-based hardware, so unless companies already had a strong relationship with them, they looked elsewhere.

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My MacBook Pro has USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt (the best of both worlds) and I recently bought a USB 3.0 hub to use with it. The USB connector is the same at the computer end, making it backward compatible with USB 1.0 and 2.0. It's the device end that is new and different. Notice the SS logo on the cable, the taller height connector, and the blue colored parts:

 

20130128013124.jpg

 

Mark O.

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It must be remembered that Thunderbolt is an Intel product and Apple was just the first, and most visible, adopter. This was a big topic at CES this year. Apple is the most visible adopter of Thunderbolt technology because they (at least tried to) purchase & claim proprietary ownership, so that it would be an Apple-only connection. Add this to their already long list of legal issues. I feel like the newest USB 3.0 will eventually become the general standard, especially when the new specs are implemented. All the red tape that Apple caused led to very limited options to manufacture TBolt-based hardware, so unless companies already had a strong relationship with them, they looked elsewhere.
USB 3 will never be as fast for things like moving tons of data while trying to do other things too. That's just how USB works versus FireWire and now thunderbolt. Try moving 2TB of data between drives with USB while running ProTools versus while using FireWire or Thunderbolt. Huge difference, though it won't matter to most consumers. It probably won't matter to most of us either because audio files are just not that huge.
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  • 2 weeks later...

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