rstl99 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hi all, I am thinking of acquiring a portable mixer to go with my Nagra IV-S. For those few times when I might do some remote music recording and need more than 2 mic inputs. I figure that if I'm going to do this retro-thing as a hobby, I might as well go all out! ;-) I saw a Pro Sound MX-4S for sale at Trew with Pelican case for $400. Also, there was a custom one built from a Sennheiser 4 channel mixer, in Haliburton case, for sale on ebay a few weeks ago, which is still available I'm told, for around the same price. See ad here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/STELLAVOX-NAGRA-CUSTOM-CONSOLE-MIC-PRE-AMP-MIXER-M101-SENNHEISER-DENECKE-/160932231466?pt=US_Live_Studio_Mixers&hash=item25784ef92a Vintage gear aside, would a more sensible choice be to opt for a Sound Devices USBPre2 and patch the output into the line input of the Nagra? I appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Hayes Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 SQN 4S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Wang Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Sonosax M32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hmmm, thanks for the suggestions guys, but I can't justify paying the price for the SQN and Sonosax for my amateur usage, which is why I was looking at the other two... (still, I have no doubts they are excellent pieces of gear!). Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Collins Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Audio Developments AD 145, easier to work on than the SX-S. This on is on Ebay right now out of England. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLASSIC-6-CHANNEL-AUDIO-DEVELOPMENTS-AD-145-PICO-FIELD-OR-STUDIO-MIXER-POWER-/230915907393?pt=UK_Mixers&hash=item35c3a91f41 A "tell" on its condition is the black printing next to the P&G faders, normally if used a lot, the numbers wear off, this one looks pristine. Price is right at the moment. Be prepared to re cap it, but its easier to do than a Sx-s. There are chip upgrades you can do, they are all on plugs, and you can modify it to do seperate outs on each channel. I have no connection to the seller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Since you're on a budget and want to go the ''old school'' way, maybe this Nagra mixer for $500 ? http://www.trewaudio.com/i/consign/6284.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Save your $$ for an old Cooper 106. Some out there at good prices. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Audio Developments AD 145, easier to work on than the SX-S. This on is on Ebay right now out of England. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLASSIC-6-CHANNEL-AUDIO-DEVELOPMENTS-AD-145-PICO-FIELD-OR-STUDIO-MIXER-POWER-/230915907393?pt=UK_Mixers&hash=item35c3a91f41 A "tell" on its condition is the black printing next to the P&G faders, normally if used a lot, the numbers wear off, this one looks pristine. Price is right at the moment. Be prepared to re cap it, but its easier to do than a Sx-s. There are chip upgrades you can do, they are all on plugs, and you can modify it to do seperate outs on each channel. I have no connection to the seller This appears to be the line-input-only version -- no mic preamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 http://www.sqn.co.uk/history1.html I spent 3 weeks recording a salvage operation with the SQN3/nagra sn combo (at the bottom of the page). I loved it, especially the hand crank feature (but it didn't stop me from getting sea sick :-( btw there is a 4 channel SQN on bblist right now for under £400 dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Save your $$ for an old Cooper 106. Some out there at good prices. CrewC +1 A great match for a 4S. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 The IV-S can sound really great if properly set up--try not to put a lo-fi mixer in front of it! If that's the only choice then I'd stick with just its 2 onboard preamps. There are other possibilities--many years ago Bill Ruck built me a "3rd mic" box for my IV-S by using a Nagra mic pre housed in box that was added to either or both channels via the NR loop connections (on the left side). This worked very well. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 The Nagra preamps were the holy grail, not equalled or surpassed by many other devices. Several people I know, myself included, had extra outboard add-on preamps made from Kudelski designed Nagra preamps. Neil Stone, rest his soul, built a mixing panel with Nagra parts utilizing the Nagra Universal Preamp. Bruce Bisenz's amazing custom mixer also used Nagra preamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefilosa Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Any SQN mixer, save for the SQN-3 (Mono) - FWIW I've always used a high-quality SQN in front of my Nagras. The preamps are awesome, and when there is a need for limiting (for more-than-occasional sonic events!), they are very very good. I preferred the PPMs over the ballistics of the modulometer (sp?) nagra needles, hands down, in keeping things under control. Also consider the routing capabilities, selective monitoring, and the option of working in M/S. Of the field mixers available, I always have considered the SQN to be the cleanest, warmest, most " musiclal - regarding preamps. MF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thanks for all the great suggestions and advice folks! Indeed, would be a shame to put a low-fi mixer in front of the Nagra, as Phil indicated, so I'll be mindful of that! I'll keep my eyes peeled for a nice mixer along the lines of the (now vintage?) ones you suggested (Cooper, Audio Developments, SQN). Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 The little Nagra mixers (BMII etc) were ok, but didn't have a lot of gain. Very small, but no meters etc. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefilosa Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Not sure what your experience is with tape-based recording, so forgive me if I am off-base, but don't forget that adequate signal strengh and good (but not excessive) tape saturation is important to your S/N specs and results. I learned early that PPM metering is the way to go there, and still prefer "needles" to this day - just harder to find nowadays. MF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 A Sela mixer would also be keeping in the time period and "vintage" of the Nagra. I purchased a vintage home-made mixer from Kirk Francis (purely by accident / coincidence) on eBay and will post some pictures of that when I return home from my travels. If your doing it for nostalgic purposes, sure would be fun to use something authentic. Personally, I would have no problem using a piece of modern gear matched with a IV-S. I IV-S is still a pretty high fidelity recording device, and using something modern is not going to instantly take away any of the hi-fi vibe that one would get with the IV-S. The single biggest thing to impart "color" - talking strictly about electronics - as always, performance, mics, placement, and room acoustics are much more important of course - is the use of a compressor for not only leveling, but full on limiting - mostly avoided these days and considered by some as bad-practice due to the "non-non-destructive" nature of the effect that is printed, but for the experienced producer that knows what he wants, sometimes it is best to just record the sound from the get go with "that" sound in mind. Preamps are mostly very similar to the uninitiated ear, but exhibit their greatest differences in a progressive manner, being most obvious towards the outer limits of their performance envelope. Opinions on preamps are like A-holes, as the saying goes... everyone has one. I do love the Nagra design. I also love some of the obvious classics like the Neve A (1073/1084) and AB (1081) amps, but also like the modern Rupert Neve stuff (new 511 announced at NAMM for an outstanding price). If your into classical, jazz, or other critical recording applications, many people like high gain, low noise, fast preamps. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't hesitate to use wooly/gooey preamps either - after all, that's all they had back in the day. One of my favorites from the clean / pristine flavor is the DACs Clarity MicAmp. I've already talked about pre's too much and what I should have said, is just buy something and use the hell out of it, it is going to sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Not sure what your experience is with tape-based recording, so forgive me if I am off-base, but don't forget that adequate signal strengh and good (but not excessive) tape saturation is important to your S/N specs and results. I learned early that PPM metering is the way to go there, and still prefer "needles" to this day - just harder to find nowadays. MF Thanks Mike. Yeah, I've been fooling around on analog recorders for a while, and tend to load up the signal pretty good on the old Nagra. It can sure take it! And like you, I like needle metering, for sure, on the nagra modulometers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 A Sela mixer would also be keeping in the time period and "vintage" of the Nagra. I purchased a vintage home-made mixer from Kirk Francis (purely by accident / coincidence) on eBay and will post some pictures of that when I return home from my travels. If your doing it for nostalgic purposes, sure would be fun to use something authentic. Personally, I would have no problem using a piece of modern gear matched with a IV-S. (...) If your into classical, jazz, or other critical recording applications, many people like high gain, low noise, fast preamps. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't hesitate to use wooly/gooey preamps either - after all, that's all they had back in the day. One of my favorites from the clean / pristine flavor is the DACs Clarity MicAmp. I've already talked about pre's too much and what I should have said, is just buy something and use the hell out of it, it is going to sound great. Thanks for the insights and thoughts, Tom, much appreciated. Sela will be on my list too, as you say it's the right vintage too. And yeah, it's all about getting great sound and having fun, for sure! All the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matti Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Audio Developments AD 145, easier to work on than the SX-S. This on is on Ebay right now out of England. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLASSIC-6-CHANNEL-AUDIO-DEVELOPMENTS-AD-145-PICO-FIELD-OR-STUDIO-MIXER-POWER-/230915907393?pt=UK_Mixers&hash=item35c3a91f41 A "tell" on its condition is the black printing next to the P&G faders, normally if used a lot, the numbers wear off, this one looks pristine. Price is right at the moment. Be prepared to re cap it, but its easier to do than a Sx-s. There are chip upgrades you can do, they are all on plugs, and you can modify it to do seperate outs on each channel. I have no connection to the seller This seems to be a line in only version Matti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 I have a brand new Twelco mixer that was bought for a job but never used. I'm looking for 600 UK pounds + shipping at cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfvid Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 check a customized MX-40 here wolfvid.com/datasheets/Specials.pdf lots of other useful stuff - cases, cables boompoles etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I have a brand new Twelco mixer that was bought for a job but never used. I'm looking for 600 UK pounds + shipping at cost. Still available due to penniless dreamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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