Jump to content

PG's sound cart project


Paul Graff

Recommended Posts

IMG_0881.jpg

Finally….an update.  Was going to wait for the Fusion, but I have a Deva 5.8 for a few days, so that can be the stand-in.  First, your post slipped by me Mike, sorry about that.  The SKB plastic shelves are strong and pretty cheap.  They are just too thick, unless you need a sliding shelf.  I got rid of another one so that my monitors can slip in tandem off the magic arm and store on a shelf without disconnecting them at all. 

IMG_0879.jpg

A bit of Velcro makes them stay put.  I also had too many sliding shelves.  The only shelf that really needs to slide is the mixer shelf and that is Mid-Atlantic brand and locks open or closed much more securely than the SKB shelf.  Deva is still on a SKB shelf, which can be handy to get at the sides easily.  Fixed shelves are from Rackman in Burbank.  They have nice stuff (rackman.com).

IMG_0885.jpg

Can’t say enough good things about Ram-Mount (ram-mount.com).  Phil Palmer has the Tough Tray, which is what the laptop is on, and brought them to my attention.  I pieced together a mounting system with several ball-joints, which is very strong and positionable.  Picked up the chair (19” height) with side table and the umbrella from Costco.  Everything is very accessible and visible from the chair.

I picked up a MOTU Traveler to use as a backup with Boom Recorder.  I like Metacorder, but don’t want to spend the money right now since it currently only serves as a backup.  It would be nice if the Traveler had 8 AES in/out (it has 2) instead of ADAT, but it suits my needs.  It is bus powerable, but I power it from the 12-volt system on the cart to not tax the laptop battery.  I simply run the mix track from a main bus on my PSC M8 into the Traveler and onto the bus-powered ext. HD with BR.  No real-time backup of iso tracks since I have an analog mixer and don’t want to split the direct outs that go to the Deva.  My theory is that, in the event of a catastrophic failure of the recorder (i.e. it dies), I have the mix track backed up and a simple re-patch of the direct outs into the Traveler enables me to be up and running with 8 tracks on BR.

I went with the monitor Brian C. recommended from LCD4less and it works great.  No tuner, but I have two feeds into it from balun, switchable A-B.  Thinner, smaller (but same screen size), and brighter than the other monitor (on third vid out from the balun), which is the one Remote Audio used to sell.  I will replace that one eventually as I hate the mini-plug input, but it works fine for now, esp. since I never have to disconnect the monitors for storage/moves. For baluns, I went with the MuxLab 500053 for three video and one analog audio.  Works great.  It’s sold for component video, but R, G, and B can each take a different composite feed.  In the US, a great deal from this place...

http://www.svideo.com/500053.html

$120 for two of them with free shipping and no sales tax outside of Texas.  I actually like to buy locally when I can, but none to be found in LA.

Thanks for all the great ideas from everyone. The rack still has room to grow and should be pretty easy to reconfigure. I like having the support on my left with easy access to the front and rear of the cart.  No patch bay or covering in back.  I will drill a ¾” hole in each back cover and keep black rubber “corks” in them.  Remove the corks and I can keep the covers on if I like with only the main 12-volt cable going from bottom to top.  I welcome feedback or questions.

PG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 52
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Hi Sergio,

This worked best for me:

IMG_0899.jpg

This is part # RAM-232-0.  The 0 refers to the angle and this comes in 45 and 90 degrees as well.  It took a bit of detective work as their site is set up for mounting in cars.  If it's helpful, the other parts I used are:

RAM-234-3

RAM-202

RAM-201 (two of these)

RAM-218

RAM-PA8212

RAM-230

PG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul - that is a very handsome (and well equipped!) sound cart. The Ram-mount also seems a handy device.

Anyone interested in lap-top brackets should check out the laptop trays available from Chinhda. These need not be purchased with a Chinhda cart; Chinhda will sell them separately and provide a mount for a Magliner or other cart. To see examples, go to:

http://www.productionrecording.com/Tools/CartV3Accessories.html

Without even looking at the cost of the Ram-mount, I am sure Chinhda's is more expensive. But it is also very strong, very light, and elegantly made.

I'll keep these "commercial" messages to a minimum on this forum but this seemed a place where the applicability of the product justified the post.

David Waelder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went with the monitor Brian C. recommended from LCD4less and it works great.

Looks great, Paul.  I dig the Ram-mounts.

Does it concern you at all having the laptop's connectors (USB; FW) sticking out at the outer edge of the whole cart?  I'd be worried that someone will slide past the cart a little too close and bust off a connector, or worse screw up the port on the laptop.

Also, wanted to correct the vendor name, in case anyone's lost in Google-land trying to find that:  LCD4Video.com

Brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's cool, David.  I love Chinhda's work and the whole point here is to share ideas and find what works best for each of us; often a hybrid of many others approaches and solutions.  Chinhda's constructions are inspired and inspiring.  And some of the most talented mixers in the world use a Rubbermaid cart or folding table.  Everyone finds what works for them and supports them so they can concentrate on what's REALLY important: the sound.

Good point, Brian.  I will construct a protector for the laptop connections ASAP.

PG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Sergio,

This worked best for me:

This is part # RAM-232-0.  The 0 refers to the angle and this comes in 45 and 90 degrees as well.  It took a bit of detective work as their site is set up for mounting in cars.  If it's helpful, the other parts I used are:

RAM-234-3

RAM-202

RAM-201 (two of these)

RAM-218

RAM-PA8212

RAM-230

PG

I discovered quite by accident when I was buying some Ram Mount stuff a while back that if you buy the part with a U suffix when available, it's a buck or two cheaper. The RAM-###U parts are packed in a bag instead of a blister pack. Certainly easier to open, definitely a little easier on the environment.

Best regards,

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Nothing too earth-shattering, but since I started this thread I feel I should note what's working and what's not.  While I like the racks, I have found the cart itself too bulky and heavy to load and unload for day-playing.  In addition, it’s not as stable as I would like.  I tried to make the ill-thought-out Filmtools cart purchase viable, but even with the modifications it does not work for me and my vehicle.

I recently mixed a pilot with a 2-man crew and decided to combine the mixing cart and the follow cart into one cart.  I got rid of the shelf on the follow cart and stacked the drawer-loaded racks on one side.  I ended up with this “Two Towers” approach and it worked really well. 

IMG_1105.jpg

Since there was no utility person, it was particularly handy to sit in my mixing chair and be able to reach all the follow cart items without getting up each time.  Everything is on this one cart except the rugs, which are in one of those little shopping carts.  Antenna mounts are a bit makeshift and I miss the lovely Ram-Mount for my laptop.  Otherwise, I was very happy and it all fits in my wagon.

Nonetheless, this is a stopgap and a total redesign is in order when I have time.

PG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing too earth-shattering, but since I started this thread I feel I should note what's working and what's not.  While I like the racks, I have found the cart itself too bulky and heavy to load and unload for day-playing.  In addition, it’s not as stable as I would like.  I tried to make the ill-thought-out Filmtools cart purchase viable, but even with the modifications it does not work for me and my vehicle.

PG

You're a good man, Paul, to confess to us all what works and what doesn't. I had a similar experience building one of my carts many years ago --- I spent 3 months designing and building the cart and when I loaded all the gear on it I was barely able to get through one day of work. It still amazes me how I could have been so wrong, even at the level of a concept, and actually build something that was so un-workable. It looks like you did find a good interim solution which will allow you to continue working (that's important!) and I guess it is back to the drawing board for some real revision.

-  Jeff Wexler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're a good man, Paul, to confess to us all what works and what doesn't. I had a similar experience building one of my carts many years ago --- I spent 3 months designing and building the cart and when I loaded all the gear on it I was barely able to get through one day of work. It still amazes me how I could have been so wrong, even at the level of a concept, and actually build something that was so un-workable. It looks like you did find a good interim solution which will allow you to continue working (that's important!) and I guess it is back to the drawing board for some real revision.

-  Jeff Wexler

Ditto here.  Weeks of work, and by the end of the first setup of the first day w/ that cart I knew I hated it.  It is so hard to figure out in advance what will really work for what job that getting something working that finally feels right is very satisfying.  For a little while.  And then you redesign anyway.

Philip Perkins

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing too earth-shattering, but since I started this thread I feel I should note what's working and what's not.  While I like the racks, I have found the cart itself too bulky and heavy to load and unload for day-playing.  In addition, it’s not as stable as I would like.  I tried to make the ill-thought-out Filmtools cart purchase viable, but even with the modifications it does not work for me and my vehicle.

I appreciate you posting this.

I've finally gotten to the point of buying the actual cart/wheels for the soundcart im building and after seeing your original pics,

and a few others, decided I was going to go this route and order one this week.

I'll scrap that idea.

Any other good cart/wheel options for an skb shockmount case out there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the kind replies.

I appreciate you posting this.

I've finally gotten to the point of buying the actual cart/wheels for the soundcart im building and after seeing your original pics,

and a few others, decided I was going to go this route and order one this week.

I'll scrap that idea.

Any other good cart/wheel options for an skb shockmount case out there?

There is no one answer to this.  Phil Palmer's cart comes very close to being my Holy Grail of carts, but it would entail me buying a large truck to do day-play work.  If you want to leave your cart built, you either need a horizontal cart and a cargo van with ramps, at least.  Or, if you want a vertical cart, you need a taller truck or a Chihnda cart that can travel laying on its back.  Glenn Berkovitz recently showed me how his day-play setup (featuring a Chihnda cart) fits into his Honda Element and it is a thing of beauty.  He said he bought the vehicle to fit the cart and it is a very efficient load and unload.

Miy current, interim setup requires a build each unload, but it is not too bad (maybe 15 minutes max).  I don't want to lay my rack cases on their backs.  I want to store them upright.  Currently, there are two 8-space and two 12-space racks, one of each for the mixing half of the cart and one of each for the Utility half of the cart.  They stack at each end of a Rock'N'Roller R12 multi-cart (cheap) and are ratchet strapped to the cart.  This is essential to achieve stability.  I find the cart to be pretty stable and it is skinnier than a magliner, so it is easy to get through doors without having to be completely squared-up to the door.

Anything you can do to get the weight low will help a lot.  This is why many folks go with side-mounted bicycle wheels and small non-pneumatic wheels in front.  I personally do not like this and want four pneumatic tires.  The best designs have a battery shelf between the wheels to lower the center of gravity.  Mine does not; but give me time!

PG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And it's also a good idea to ensure that your battery is mounted with -at least- 50% of its mass -behind- the rear axles.  That makes it a -lot- easier to tip your cart into two wheel mode, and it will balance a -lot- better when in the tipped position.  I have found that with a little experimentation moving the battery back and forth a few inches, you can have the cart's balance point feel completely neutral when rolling on two wheels.  Makes it -much- easier to maneuver.

The best designs have a battery shelf between the wheels to lower the center of gravity.  Mine does not; but give me time!

PG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phil Palmer's cart comes very close to being my Holy Grail of carts

Wow, thanks Paul...  Never thought it would be called that!  Here's a link to the final build.

http://www.palmeraudio.net/equipment.html

It's working great.  I've had it on stage and locations for about 7 weeks now and for the first cart build ever...I'm happy.

Two very expensive cart builds in the past have ended up in the garage gathering dust because they didn't work at all.  Everything seemed perfect till I got to set and it was a nightmare.  Glad to know it's happened to someone else!

~pwp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the kind replies.

There is no one answer to this.  Phil Palmer's cart comes very close to being my Holy Grail of carts, but it would entail me buying a large truck to do day-play work.  If you want to leave your cart built, you either need a horizontal cart and a cargo van with ramps, at least.  Or, if you want a vertical cart, you need a taller truck or a Chihnda cart that can travel laying on its back.  Glenn Berkovitz recently showed me how his day-play setup (featuring a Chihnda cart) fits into his Honda Element and it is a thing of beauty.  He said he bought the vehicle to fit the cart and it is a very efficient load and unload.

Miy current, interim setup requires a build each unload, but it is not too bad (maybe 15 minutes max).  I don't want to lay my rack cases on their backs.  I want to store them upright.  Currently, there are two 8-space and two 12-space racks, one of each for the mixing half of the cart and one of each for the Utility half of the cart.  They stack at each end of a Rock'N'Roller R12 multi-cart (cheap) and are ratchet strapped to the cart.  This is essential to achieve stability.  I find the cart to be pretty stable and it is skinnier than a magliner, so it is easy to get through doors without having to be completely squared-up to the door.

Anything you can do to get the weight low will help a lot.  This is why many folks go with side-mounted bicycle wheels and small non-pneumatic wheels in front.  I personally do not like this and want four pneumatic tires.  The best designs have a battery shelf between the wheels to lower the center of gravity.  Mine does not; but give me time!

PG

You hit on one of the key elements of the whole cart design deal: what vehicle will move it.  It used to be that guys doing big movies and episodics had huge carts that could only travel on trucks w/ liftgates.  Many of you guys who do larger shows have been turning up w/ smaller carts that look more like something a day-player like me could use working out of a personal vehicle--this is progress.  I would love to see the cart that can go in the Honda Element--that car doesn't really have a whole lot of room in it but would be much nicer to drive than a cargo van.  One reason I'm still on a "horizontal" cart is that I refuse to go back to driving an Econoline type van (14 yrs in one for me).  I've had a mini/cargo van for a long time, but would really like to go with something even smaller (Scion X-, Element, even a Prius....maybe they'll make a Prius station wagon...).

Philip Perkins

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I`m always wondering why most sound mixers have such a heavy base for their cart. Specially if it is rack-cases based. You have strapped two racks togther already. Why add all this extra weight? The only thing you are missing are 4 wheels and a handle bar. But as Paul said - it`s all about personal taste.

After reading Paul`s experience I`m VERY happy that I`ve been lucky when building my cart and it was working great from day one (spent $ 800 approx in total)

Matthias

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or, if you want a vertical cart, you need a taller truck or a Chihnda cart that can travel laying on its back.  Glenn Berkovitz recently showed me how his day-play setup (featuring a Chihnda cart) fits into his Honda Element and it is a thing of beauty.  He said he bought the vehicle to fit the cart and it is a very efficient load and unload.

Glenn does have a really beautiful and well equipped cart. He had Chinhda build a number of very special brackets and hooks that exactly fit his style of work. Still Glenn's cart does not represent our ideal because of its weight. Two things contribute to this:

1. Glenn has an ATA case with drawers mounted in the base frame. This is an inherently heavy installation.

2. Glenn has two batteries in the base tray to supply power for all his components.

How one powers everything is a product both of the gear selected and of a philosophy of how the challenge should be approached. Chinhda and I both favor using components that can be powered from 12-volt sources to avoid the need for monster batteries and inverters. We think that cart power should be set up so that - in its NORMAL CONFIGURATION - the cart is autonomous for only an hour or two. In situations where you are using a full production sound cart, there is nearly always power available to provide float charge for batteries. You need enough power when you land so that you can hear rehearsals before electrics drop off a line. You may even need to be able to record a few shots. But it shouldn't be necessary to carry sufficient power to run all day. Now, there may be days working on remote locations where more power is necessary and one would need to supplement the battery supply, either with a bigger battery or with an additional battery connected to your distribution system. But it shouldn't be a daily chore to lug around the power that is required only occasionally.

The cart Tom Stasinis is using on Entourage comes closest to our ideal. In fitting it out, Tom made every effort to keep everything as light as possible so he might be nimble on that fast moving show. When small is good, he keeps the outrigger trays folded up and has a neat vertical cart. When there's space or need, he spreads out and enjoys an expanded workspace. And the whole ensemble is, well, not light but a manageable weight that two people can easily move up steps.

David Waelder

post-14-130815077438_thumb.jpg

post-14-130815077445_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...