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Cat 5, HD cabeling


wolf

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CAT-5e cable for portable applications: 

(pre-chewed but not inhaled: researched but I have only a little reliable field feedback)

To distribute SD video and audio for Video assist purposes this paper is much too complicated but CAT5 is good enough. Quality is secondary to convenience and cost. Go to Pac Radio and get what they have on the floor. You do the sales people a favor, they will make their quotas and get their commissions, forget all this research stuff.

Anyway read on you geeks:

Cat-5 solutions are for analog component video and audio signals through cheaper lighter weight Cat-5 cables were the best quality is not so important. Cat 5 was originally made for short haul computer-computer digital communication but is now adapted to this analog use. It has no shielding (there are exceptions) so you need transformers (called baluns) on both ends. All these transformers are built to a price and are unshielded and certainly do not pass low frequencies at high levels – but who cares, we are talking only for reference video and audio.

Some older video equipment will not sync to signals coming out of a transformer. Often, especially in long cable runs with poorly supervised AC distribution (like different grounds from different outlets) the transformer isolation is a great big plus. Sound and video to/from video assist and the other way round is a good proven application of CAT5.  60Hz and SCR dimmer noise and radiation from HMI cables would not get into the cables because they are “balanced” by the transformers, but will get into the transformers at either end as they have no steel shield. In practical video assist use this and the quality loss of a good detailed analog signal don’t seem to matter. If you want pristine SD NTSC pictures stick with Coax, if you care about weight and price of cabling try CAT 5. If you want to keep 1000 ft handy in a small storage space, for that one time you need it, go with CAT5. For all intents and purposes Canaire audio cable with the transformers at both ends would probably work just as well – who is the first to try it?

CABLE:

Gepco Cable manufacturer

http://www.gepco.com/  818 569-5222  or 894-3446  ask for  Kurt Stein or Rick Fernandez - at Burbank. 

826 N. Lake St., Burbank, CA 91502 or  Michael Yaffe & for samples.  Main ofc:  2225 W. Hubbard St., Chicago, IL 60612, 800-966-0069.  Western Regional Sales, William Deiker Inside Sales, John Catheline Western Regional Sales

Gepco CT504HD (Stranded Conductor) $0.45/ft. @ 1000'    the sample sent to us had approx. 21 strands per conductor for 100 Mhz bandwidth (plenty for SD video),

It’s not as flexible as Canaire and does not coil as nicely but seems manageable with a little educated care. If there are cable wranglers who do not know over-under… well you can probably still manage. 

I have a report from one reliable video guy and the mixer that they have been using this for 1.5 features in tough conditions and its holding up well and there is never interference for the sound guys feed (using Intellix Baluns)

http://www.gepco.com/products/proav_cable/network/4pr_cat5Eheavyduty_M.htm

The CT504HDX with solid conductors (shorter life probably not as flexible though) http://www.gepco.com/products/proav_cable/network/4pr_4chan_cat5Eheavyduty_M.htm 

is intended for use with Neutrik EtherCon® connectors and is also available from Gepco as preterminated cable assemblies.  The Catalog says it has solid conductors for lower attenuation but shorter lifetime and 350Mhz bandwidth. For our use… forget it.

Belden has a Cat-5 (1305A) designed for media use for analog signals, which is used primarily by rental & staging companies for semipermanent installations. Its cables are stranded with only (7x32) strands. This is a disadvantage compared to Gepco with many more strands. “Heavy jacket wall version for medium duty use (Product No. 1304A) or an upjacketed version (two thickneses of PVC outer shell) for the harshest heavy duty applications (Product No. 1305A) – thicker walls and less likely to lie flat on the floor.”

http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/pdf/1305A.pdf

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/prodbull/NP228.pdf

http://www.belden.com/01Home/01_FeaturedProduct.cfm

Calrad makes http://www.calrad.com/download/40-6110.pdf  Calrad does not have a reputation for professional equip. but these “seem” OK. They make good rabbit ear antennae  J

Connectors:

Cat 5 traditionally is terminated by Telephone type RJ-45 connectors – 8 pin (they are real cheap and fragile and get dirty easy, but have a wiping action that is their only saving grace).  Neutric makes a shell for that connector so they last a little longer:

Neutrik Cable Connector that fits  Gepco but should fit Belden too:

NE8MC  at both ends

http://www.greendotaudio.com/HTMLobj-935/NE8MC-B.pdf

http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/203_283121/RJ45_Data_Connector_group.aspx

the NE8MC-B-1 is the better water-resistant version

http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/210_t2_1421214602/NE8MC-B-1_detail.aspx

Neutrik CAT-5E Chassis Connector:  NE8FDP

http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/210_1518731540/NE8FDP_detail.aspx

Neutrik Fem-to-Fem Inline Coupler:  NE8FF

http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/210_941824373/NE8FF_detail.aspx

Waterproofing parts

SE8FD

Interesting FAQ:

Cable colors:

http://www.muxlab.com/assets/files/application_notes/EIA568.JPG

http://www.neutrik.com/content/technicalsupport/faq.aspx?sublevelId=204_7

Neutrik assembly instructions: http://www.neutrik.com/client/neutrik/media/downloads/Media_240701762.pdf

Easy place to order Neutrik: http://www.mouser.com/neutrik/

Connectors from BTX  http://www.btx.com

CD-NE8MC Neutrik rugged cable mount nickel shell  $1.72  http://www.btx.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=CD-NE8MC

CD-NE8MCB Neutrik rugged cable mount  black shell  $1.96 http://www.btx.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=CD-NE8MCB

Gepco and Pacific Radio make cables to your specs. We will eventually make some  Baluns in Steel boxes with BNC and XLR  connectors and the shitty RJ-45. Advantage of Steel is that the transformers do not pick up radiated magnetism from wall switches, HMI’s, HMI cabeling, SCRs, dimmerboard cabeling, Monitor magnetism etc…

The baluns inside are the same junk as all the others “just good enough for government work”. We are waiting for Jensen to explore this market. Some folks say it’s not necessary to shield transformers with steel, they are the enviable experts able to  explaing away and forgeting the shitty images they provide every day – I used to hope they wanted to me look good as a result of them looking bad , “but Nooooooo” (as pronounced by John Belushi) – the sloppy operators tear down the reputation of all. Soooo for a while I thought the the professional groups like unions and such would be interested in “educating” up the mediocre folk so a high level of service provided by all would generate a higher average income for all --- But in fact they only care about their personal salaries and what they can get away with. Ahh it’s a sad world of opportunists….. smirk.

BALUN:

(transformer for both ends of cable)

made by ETS. There is a large choice on a website not very up to date: http://www.etslan.com/Video.htm

Balun for CAT-5e to 2-BNC vid. and 2-RCA :  ETS PV905 or AV905 .

Intelix maybe AVO-A4-F

http://www.intelix.com/applications/av_over_cat5.htm

or Intelix AVO-V3AD-F  they advertise 1000ft

also Intelix SW-4601 baluns   

I have reports of one Intelix balun user (with Gepco cable) who is into his 2nd feature feeding sound dept. with video and getting audio and is blissfully happy, so is the sound crew that has a lot less cables to move in the tropical jungle island they are working in.

For more information, go to http://www.intelix.com/products/balun_HD.htm 

We have some Intellix Audio products that are well built but only of mediocre technical quality (that is they perform to specs of the hotel industry OK – built to purpose and price), wonder if that reflects on their line of Baluns or if they really are all made by the same Chinese factory.

ETS:

www.etslan.com  used with success on the set: ETS AV905 / 2 audio and 2 video. folks likes ‘em for LONG runs.

We bought some and the boxes fall apart before you use them, but inside there are pin outs that may be good for customizing. Pix look OK with short cables, will test latter with 500+ feet.

Also said to be OK: http://www.muxlab.com/products/ve_avd_2w_av_balun.html

One opinion from the video Yahoo group:

“I found using the Muxlab 500041 box [made for VGA] for CAT5 cable there is a lot of inference in the signal. That the CAT5 cable is not insulted enough to avoid power problems JEFF ”

Interesting FAQs:

http://www.extron.com/company/archive.aspx?archive=whitepaper&artcatid=3

Twisted Pair White Papers

Sending A/V Signals Over Twisted Pair Cables: An IntroductionA/V over twisted pair is the transmission and distribution of audio and analog video, as well as control signals over wiring traditionally associated with data networking and telephone systems. This wiring is commonly known as UTP, or unshielded twisted pair. Special interfacing equipment is required to send video and audio signals over UTP wiring. UTP-based A/V systems are appealing for many applications because they offer numerous advantages in terms of cost and implementation, and deliver performance comparable to systems using RGB coaxial cabling.  Download White Paper

Sending A/V Signals Over Twisted Pair Cables: Optimizing PerformanceSpecial system design and signal processing considerations are essential in order to ensure optimized performance. This paper details the two primary factors that affect twisted pair A/V system performance, cable length and skew, and offers guidelines on how to properly calibrate signals and select the best equipment and UTP cable for high performance transmission of signals in a twisted pair A/V system. Download White Paper

For Composite Video

Canare LV61S nice flexible cable for non-digital use.

http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?objectid=0D01B45F-3048-7098-AFABDCB352332178

is ok for 20 or so feet for digital video

CRIMP PLUGS AND TOOLS MATRIX

Model CANARE 75 ohm Connectors CableStripper CrimpTool Die Set

BNC F RCA

LV-61S BCP-C4B FP-C4 RCAP-C4A TS-100E TS-4C TC-1 TCD-451CA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FOR HDSDI (video digital HD 1080 type ) distribution:

(don’t consider Cat-5 for digital distro, there are no broadband Baluns available)

HDSDI is fine for 100 ft thru regular RG-59. For a 200 ft run you need the special stuff. If there is only pix in the hd stream it is good for longer distances using RG-59 than when the stream also included  sound.

RG-6U size cable (Belden 1694A for example) is typically used for HD – not flexible http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/pdf/1694A.pdf

Connectors are shortlived because everything is so stiff and fat and heavy.  For cart wiring where signals are sent only a few feet Belden has mini digital coax to reduce weight and increase convenience.

The flexible version is 1694F – still very fat and awkward.

for digital distribution of HDSDI around a stage use Belden 1505F  its flexible. cost approx.  $450 for 1000 feet  - 60cents / foot, Paladin orange crimp 1611.  Connector Kings 2065-2-9.  Die: KTH 2261 probably?

http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/pdf/1505F.pdf

It is good for 220 ft. Recommended by Clairmont and Panavision. You need reclocking line amps that need power to extend the cable run to several sections of 220ft..

Canare has a 3-5 conductor snake sped'd for digital signals. .5 inch thick

Cable #  V3-3CFB or V5-3CFB

http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?objectid=0BD9B0A5-3048-7098-AFCF21829FBEAB62 

use Canare connectors and boots for termination. 1000ft $ 1500.00

Belden has up to 3 cables in some snake cables (1505A, 1855A, 1694A) but they have no  5 conductor digital cable.

Belden has a 3 conductor digital cable 7794A  not flexible.

http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/pdf/7794A.pdf

Gepco makes a 5 conductor digital snake cable #VS57000

And since you have read this far: What's Balanced and Unbalanced Audio?

http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?objectid=0856671F-3048-7098-AF65F7D06F052510

read this paper but don’t call me for advice – this is all I know – Jan 2008

All kinds of audio+video stuff that is nowhere else at

www.wolfvid.com

much fun  wolf

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Wolf,

You give the best information regarding this topic, and many others that I find invaluable, especially antenna info. Thank you very much.

It appears that many of the sound mixers here are buying into some sort of Cat5 distribution system. Could anyone explain what they are using it for? I can't help but think that this is for a "video assist" package. How many lines of audio are you sending to video village? Wouldn't a mix, on one line, be sufficient? I do not do gigs that require more than a mix to video assist, so I can't foresee a need for a Cat5 system. What jobs do? It seems like one more thing that needs to be troubleshot or get yelled at for the poor quality coming out of it, for a "scratch track". And one more thing to buy for a package I have to negotiate over for every job, and don't get the money for!

Someone, please set me straight!

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Wolf,

You give the best information regarding this topic, and many others that I find invaluable, especially antenna info. Thank you very much.

It appears that many of the sound mixers here are buying into some sort of Cat5 distribution system. Could anyone explain what they are using it for? I can't help but think that this is for a "video assist" package. How many lines of audio are you sending to video village? Wouldn't a mix, on one line, be sufficient? I do not do gigs that require more than a mix to video assist, so I can't foresee a need for a Cat5 system. What jobs do? It seems like one more thing that needs to be troubleshot or get yelled at for the poor quality coming out of it, for a "scratch track". And one more thing to buy for a package I have to negotiate over for every job, and don't get the money for!

Someone, please set me straight!

I hear you on the money/rental issue, but I see some advantages to going with Cat 5 for my jobs, ie ways it makes my job easier.  I've used an expensively custom made 1 video+2 audio BNC/XLR cable for video assist connection for many years.  It is well jacketed, which is why it has lasted.  But a more convenient length of this cable (longer) would really be in the way on the cart, and add a lot of weight, not to mention be quite expensive.  It seemed to me to be much cheaper to go with the Cat 5/balun stuff, where I can have lots of length in a small coil AND add a 2nd video feed w/o another cable.  I had lots of 2 cam jobs in '07, and am definitely going to 2 monitors in '08, so I wanted to make that connection be as little extra work as possible.

Philip Perkins

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Our video assist Op is and has been using cat5 to feed video village 2 trks of sound and 2 video feeds. It works well for him. He is a big fan cause it is cheap, light weight, and 1000 ft runs are no big deal other than running it in and out. I also remember that Mark Ullano has a system that incorporates cat5 in some fashion, though I am not sure of the details.

CrewC

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Cat-5 is also used to carry audio. Since I don't use the system myself, I'm not completely in tune with how the whole system works (and open to correction by others).

Mark Ulano has one of the more sophisticated systems. His Venue receiver is on the set cart, allowing him to deploy antennas close to the action. Audio (all six channels of the Venue) is converted by a balun to a signal that can pass through the CAT-5 cable. The CAT-5 cable links his set cart to his main cart, often outside the stage. There another balun reconverts the signal back to an audio format suitable for his mixing panel. The same CAT-5 also carries computer signals from the Venue, allowing him to remotely monitor information from the set using LecNet2 software. And, the same CAT-5 cable also carries the video signal from Video Village.

Or something like that.

David Waelder

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Cat-5 is also used to carry audio. Since I don't use the system myself, I'm not completely in tune with how the whole system works (and open to correction by others).

Mark Ulano has one of the more sophisticated systems. His Venue receiver is on the set cart, allowing him to deploy antennas close to the action. Audio (all six channels of the Venue) is converted by a balun to a signal that can pass through the CAT-5 cable. The CAT-5 cable links his set cart to his main cart, often outside the stage. There another balun reconverts the signal back to an audio format suitable for his mixing panel. The same CAT-5 also carries computer signals from the Venue, allowing him to remotely monitor information from the set using LecNet2 software. And, the same CAT-5 cable also carries the video signal from Video Village.

Or something like that.

David Waelder

I think his system is one of the Aviom digital rigs like touring sound companies use now--I don't think he is sending primary audio as analog down the Cat 5s, and from the article I read he was getting more than 4 channels of digital audio per Cat5 cable in addition to video and monitor (analog) audio.  Trick rig--I think he said he had something like 16 audio channels in, 4 out and at least 2 video feeds on 2 Cat 5 cables.

Philip Perkins

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There are a couple of options for CAT-5 snake systems, as opposed to the A/V baluns Wolf was referring to. They are active 24 bit 48 kHz. devices, and they can be configured to do up to 64 channels of sound via CAT-5, in combinations of input and output based on cards in the rack mount card cages that go at either end. There are also fiber optic versions of this system as well. I shot at a concert last year that used the CAT-5 version, and it was amazing to see one guy wrap what was essentially a 64 pair 250 foot snake by himself in about 5 minutes.

Whirlwind is one source, I'm sure you can see details on their website. http://www.whirlwindusa.com/

Best regards,

Jim

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This thread started one day too early for me: Trew Audio is putting together a kit just for this purpose, consisting of two small transformer boxes, fan-out harness for the sound cart and video cart, and 100 feet of CAT5 cable. The kit is set to be on our site tomorrow. I'll post the link as soon as it's up.

I have been using this system since October on a feature and several commecials. The CAT5 method is definately the way to go. Anyone want to buy my two bulky and heavy 2-audio/2-video video assist snakes? Cheap?

Glen Trew

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Thanks Glen.  I was wondering if Trew/Remote Audio would put together a nice little system.  I've been using the Intelex Baluns for a year and a half now...and it's been VERY reliable.  I thought I would be replacing the CAT5 cable frequently, but that hasn't been the case.  On Jericho we even had a tank run over it and it still passed signal.  The jacket was a little shredded, but it made it.

~pwp

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Hey Phil, thats funny about the shredded  cable. Kya, the Video guy I'm working with today has a torn up cable that looks like hell, but has been working fine for 6 months since a Condor did the same thing to it. I don't use video monitors per say, but I understand their value. Maybe it is time to re evaluate. It will be interesting to see the rig Glen and Co come up with.

CrewC

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Trew Audio is putting together a kit just for this purpose, consisting of two small transformer boxes, fan-out harness for the sound cart and video cart, and 100 feet of CAT5 cable. The kit is set to be on our site tomorrow. I'll post the link as soon as it's up.

Glen Trew

Any progress on the CAT5 Vid assist kit?  I've had a couple of requests lately for a parts list of my CAT5 system, and I would like to refer to yours if it makes it up on your site.

~pwp

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Any progress on the CAT5 Vid assist kit?  I've had a couple of requests lately for a parts list of my CAT5 system, and I would like to refer to yours if it makes it up on your site.

~pwp

Sorry to be a few days late, but here is the info about the CAT-5 Video Assist Kit I mentioned earlier: http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=885&cat=24&page=1

Glen Trew

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Intellix Balun A/V

http://www.avovercat5.com/products/avov3ad.htm

This one is for component video (RGB) and digital audio.  I suppose it could also be used for three composite video and digital audio.  Do you send digital audio, Scott?  MuxLab has one like that (component video/digital audio) and also this one for component video/analog audio:

http://www.muxlab.com/products/ve_vga_Component_VideoAnalog_Audio_Balun.html

This is the Intelix one I have seen the most on sets (Glen's kit is the MuxLab version of this):

http://www.avovercat5.com/products/avov2a2.htm

I was about to buy this one and now I am thinking that 3 video and 1 audio might be more useful than 2 video and 2 audio.  Hmmm...  I lean toward Intelix only because they are from Madison, WI where i went to school and a stone's throw from Sound Devices.  Irrational, I know, but evidently they make good stuff in Wisconsin.  They don't seem to have the analog audio and 3 video (or 1 component video) like MuxLab does.  I will be sending analog audio.

Anyone else want to chime in and which one they use and why?  I have Wolf's spy transmitter, so I could always receive another video that way.

Paul

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I've been working with a group of producers lately who are using the Intelix AVO-V1A2-F, with JVC GY-HD100 and 250 cameras. The 250 has RCA outs, and the 100 has a 1/8" "Line Out" section that I've used a "Y" cable with. I've had some issues with hearing noise on the right channel when the cam is in Ch2 mode, and both tracks come through mono on Ch1 mode. It's across multiple cameras, so I'm wondering what could be the issue?

Tom

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  • 2 years later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

NOTE: Today August 2010 I measured some of my Baluns in  the shop: I was appalled, most were wired wrong (by the manufacturer) and the  transformers did not seem to be working: DC was continuous on many BNC in to  BNC out at the other side of the cable!!  Good lord there is a lot of research needed!!!  I have also received several credible reports from the field that  proved that BNC grounds from input to output were continuous and this of course  caused havoc and ground loops galore when plugged into different mains and  different ground. This was especially obvious on complex HD shoots with several  SD monitor islands powered by unknown AC sources on stages that turned out to  be poorly wired and grounds in conduit were not maintained. The balun isolation  is supposed to take care of this, but since the balun boxes were badly designed  and wired they did not do their job.  Someday I will test some good ones and post it here.  OUCH

    This paper and its newer versions  can be found at:

http://wolfvid.com/datasheets/faq_cat5_cabeling_specs.pdf

wolf ( it never ends)

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Wolf:

FWIW: Baluns per se are not designed to act as isolation transformers. That is a whole different beast. They are only designed (if done correctly) to match the impedance of 75 ohm video to cat 5 cable. All the ones I've used are galvanically coupled from one side to the other.

If you want true isolation, you will need to resort to the usual ADC/Jensen isolation transformers, which do truly isolate the grounds.

--Scott

NOTE: Today August 2010 I measured some of my Baluns in  the shop: I was appalled, most were wired wrong (by the manufacturer) and the  transformers did not seem to be working: DC was continuous on many BNC in to  BNC out at the other side of the cable!!  Good lord there is a lot of research needed!!!  I have also received several credible reports from the field that  proved that BNC grounds from input to output were continuous and this of course  caused havoc and ground loops galore when plugged into different mains and  different ground. This was especially obvious on complex HD shoots with several  SD monitor islands powered by unknown AC sources on stages that turned out to  be poorly wired and grounds in conduit were not maintained. The balun isolation  is supposed to take care of this, but since the balun boxes were badly designed  and wired they did not do their job.  Someday I will test some good ones and post it here.  OUCH

    This paper and its newer versions  can be found at:

http://wolfvid.com/datasheets/faq_cat5_cabeling_specs.pdf

wolf ( it never ends)

 

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