rafaeldelauz Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 "I would strongly consider the Sanken CS2. It fits right in between the CMIT and the CS3e in terms of pattern/sound/off axis rejection" +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I've boomed with the 416 a lot before this. It's a good mic to start with I agree. Been renting and borrowing it for my past shoots. But like you said, I'm kinda fixated with these two. I've heard their samples from a few websites and I have to say, hands down, the CMiT is really good ! But I also heard that it doesn't perform well in moist conditions (don't know true or not). And the CS3e has good noise rejection and that's good for where I'm shooting (Malaysia, very noisy place ) although the audio quality of the sanken is okay, it's definitely not as good as the schoeps. but still handy. Just wondering which one of these two is more practical for me to get. Thanks for the advice RPSharman. anyone else can share their opinion/experience? You're in Malaysia??? Sounds humid. I don't think a CMIT would be a good choice out there. And keep that 416 with you at all times. Also you could try searching around the website for this same topic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 In my experience, the CS3-e has a much sharper off-axis rejection. You have to stay on top of someone or they will fall off quickly. The CMIT is more forgiving, but it also has an undesirable rear lobe that picks up noise from directly behind it. The lobe is audibly noticeable if you are listening for it and disclosed in the polar pattern diagrams. Oh, and directly on axis there is a slight bump around 7 kHz. The 416 has a very smooth response throughout it's coverage pattern, is impervious to condensation, and has no rear lobe. Mark O. I don't know where you're getting this from. The 416 has got a rear-lobe, too, and it shows clearly in the diagram. To my knowledge, a hyper-cardioid pickup pattern can't be built without a rear-lobe. And the freq responso, too, the 416 has got a clear and large bump starting at around 2,5kHz. That's partly responsible for that famous 416 sound. I personally prefer the MKH60 over the 416. I don't know if somebody here actually uses the Super CMIT 2U on a regular basis but am I right thinking it performs really well with constant, regular sounds in the background but not necessarily as well if it's sudden sounds ( like a honk or tires screeching ) ? On their demo files, I think it was basically rivers, crowds and reverberations the mic was dealing with... ? I worked with a rented SuperCmit for about 6 weeks last year. It does not quite work like regular noise reduction, which can sometimes sound like a compressor, bringing up the background noise when there is a single louder noise. It reduces sudden spikes quite well, but it is better for steady things. Personally, I wouldn't really want it any other way, because I do not want it to alter the sound of screeching tyres, while I still want it to reduce the gurgling river or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Thanks for the link Matt. Funny typo error in the text: DPA lavs 4017 are probably the 4071... high SPL indeed for both of these mics. The 4017 shotgun (''reference mic'' line, as DPA call'em) can handle 152dB ; yikes !!! Emory Murchison who uses one on a daily basis made me notice that... I wonder if the DPA 4017 could clip the NeverClip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I wonder if the DPA 4017 could clip the NeverClip? Two different things. Capsule distortion cause by excursion limit being reached, and signal level being too high. Also, at 152dB, you'd be clipping your eardrums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Well yes... And no. Both describe dynamic ranges. Both from quiet to loud, one equal to sound pressure levels, the other not equal but related to it. It still means pretty much the same thing. But... I wasn't quite serious anyway. And I def would not want to hear those levels the DPA can transmit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Clark Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I think it's more correct to say that the Sankens are the only mics that do not have a rear lobe. All other mics, by design have rear lobes. Also, nobody has mentioned that the Sankens have virtually no proximity effect. Both of these are big in my mind. I do prefer the sound of the CMIT to the CS3e but I also use COS-11's and find if I have the ability to get the COS-11 where I desire, the CS3e cuts better for consistency. Depending the scene, I like the choice of having both in my arsenal. Soon, you too will have both, and then some. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timlin Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Hello everyone ! So here's a predicament I'm in. I wanna buy a mic, but I'm caught between the CMiT5u and the CS-3e. This will be the first mic I'm buying for location sound. so I'm not sure which to get. Any advice? Hi there I have both the CMIT5's and a couple of Sanken CS-2's. I used them both in multiple hostile locations on a couple of films in Indonesia and Bali in 2011. We were in various jungles, remote tiny islands, active volcano's and on and off boats and also in controlled studios etc. The weather in Indonesia is much the same as in Malaysia with regards to humidity and just general hotness - however, I had no problems with either microphone throughout the 6 months I was there. I totally love the CMIT5's and I would definitely buy them again if they got lost/stolen/damaged. And I would do the same for the Sanken - I love Sanken mics, for me anyway I think the COS-11 lav's are the closest match to the CMIT5's that I've heard anyway... but, thats just my opinion... However, bang for buck, the Sanken CS-2 is really quite amazing. In a blind A-B test I would have trouble identifying which is which. Just my 2 cents worth... Rgd's Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Osborn Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I've used both the Sankens and the Schoeps. Both are great mics and have their respective merits. Outside of that which mic do your ears prefer? Once I used the cmit5u it was over for me. Love the sound. In post I can close my eyes and it's as though the person is there speaking in the room . . . really natural sounding. I also love the fact it only weighs 3.13 ounces when I boom. Both are great choices, you really couldn't go wrong with either for a first mic. But the cmit5u gets my top vote hands down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan chiles Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Hey Mike P Clark I think it would be even more correct to say only the Sanken CS3e has no rear lobe! As you all know the CS3e has 3 capsules arranged cleverly to get rid of the rear lobe that happens on all traditional interference tube mics (including the CS2 and CS1e) and also has the effect of removing proximity effect.. that CS3e is a damn special mic and worth the money, I'm a believer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Hey Mike P Clark I think it would be even more correct to say only the Sanken CS3e has no rear lobe! As you all know the CS3e has 3 capsules arranged cleverly to get rid of the rear lobe that happens on all traditional interference tube mics (including the CS2 and CS1e) and also has the effect of removing proximity effect.. that CS3e is a damn special mic and worth the money, I'm a believer! Wow, that's intersting! I didn't know that. Now I would really like to try the Sanken! And just when i had decided to save up for the SuperCMIT. Another mic that doesn't have a rear lobe, but only in mode 2, which is not really useful. Looking at the polar response diagram of the Sanken, the pickup looks very wide, more like a cardioid, yet you guys say that off-axis attenuation is really good. That's really interesting. That could be a reason why it sounds so nice in boomy rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Clark Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Hey Mike P Clark I think it would be even more correct to say only the Sanken CS3e has no rear lobe! As you all know the CS3e has 3 capsules arranged cleverly to get rid of the rear lobe that happens on all traditional interference tube mics (including the CS2 and CS1e) and also has the effect of removing proximity effect.. that CS3e is a damn special mic and worth the money, I'm a believer! Copy that. Maybe that's why I never quite liked the CS1, and never tried the CS2e. I assumed they were the same design, but that's where the 3 in CS3e comes in. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Wow, that's intersting! I didn't know that. Now I would really like to try the Sanken! And just when i had decided to save up for the SuperCMIT. Another mic that doesn't have a rear lobe, but only in mode 2, which is not really useful. Looking at the polar response diagram of the Sanken, the pickup looks very wide, more like a cardioid, yet you guys say that off-axis attenuation is really good. That's really interesting. That could be a reason why it sounds so nice in boomy rooms. It achieves directionality through bass rejection. Since shotguns work by "rejecting sound to the side", it seems more directional by its ability to do this. Yes I think it may sound like a cardioid if there was no bass to reject and if there was a lot of noise floating around. This is in fact an experience I have had. The SuperCMIT's mode 1 doesn't kill its rear lobe?? Does that mean the Sanken would hear less noise than the SuperCMIT in a few different situations? I'd figure $5000 would win out every time. EDIT: No, I'd "hope" it would win out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafaeldelauz Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 According to Sanken, every Sanken shotgun have no rear lobe around sec 45..... and my experience with the CS1, and CS2 confirms that, you can almost talk behind those mics and they wont pick it up. I personally like the Cs2 very much. Hey Mike P Clark I think it would be even more correct to say only the Sanken CS3e has no rear lobe! As you all know the CS3e has 3 capsules arranged cleverly to get rid of the rear lobe that happens on all traditional interference tube mics (including the CS2 and CS1e) and also has the effect of removing proximity effect.. that CS3e is a damn special mic and worth the money, I'm a believer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 According to Sanken, every Sanken shotgun have no rear lobe around sec 45..... and my experience with the CS1, and CS2 confirms that, you can almost talk behind those mics and they wont pick it up. That's weird, because if you check out the diagrams on Sanken's own website you will see very distinct rear lobes on the CS1 and 2. It's all freq dependent of course, but the same applies to any normal shotgun. The SuperCMIT does have a rear lobe in preset 1, but it's considerably smaller than without it. I'm not all that concerned about rear lobes, to be honest. Most of the time the butt of the mic points up towards the ceiling. Not much noise to be expected there. Except planes and reverb, but it is important to remember there is a rear lobe. Usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 The thing with the CS3e's rear lobe is that it can be difficult to use in an effective way. Perhaps if I worked with a boom operator who could make effective use of it. I mean are you going to be pointing away from the noise source the entire time while cueing two people. Sometimes. But sometimes it gets awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Clark Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 The rear lobe issues mostly pertain to reflections and noises from above. Which makes a CS3e an often good choice IF booming interiors with a short shotgun microphone. In extremely noisy environments that have noise coming from all angles, such as large to gigantic rooms, and sometimes exteriors, the CS3e has a noticeable decrease in ambient noise compared to others. I have found that in normal exterior environments, the difference is negligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiofucchi Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 The thing with the CS3e's rear lobe is that it can be difficult to use in an effective way. Perhaps if I worked with a boom operator who could make effective use of it. I mean are you going to be pointing away from the noise source the entire time while cueing two people. Sometimes. But sometimes it gets awkward. Sawrab Booming on the beach? CS3e really comes in handy here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Booming on the beach? CS3e really comes in handy here This is true. The rear lobe will really kill those waves when you turn away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Just to add one more point: the CMIT has got a very handy Hi-boost to help with a dulled sound in a zep with windjammer. Also in some rooms this helps, too. But I don't know if the CS3e has got that as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan chiles Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 My conclusion about the CS3e being the only Sanken mic without much of a rear lobe was from looking at the polar patterns on their website and also from owning other Sanken shotguns in the past. Clearly there is a big difference between the CS3e and their other mics, but yeah its all subjective Nice that we have so many great tools to choose from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Just to add one more point: the CMIT has got a very handy Hi-boost to help with a dulled sound in a zep with windjammer. Also in some rooms this helps, too. But I don't know if the CS3e has got that as well The CS3e has some issues with sibilance, which has been noted by others on this website. With that said, I haven't had a problem with the way it sounds in a Zeppelin. Perhaps it even sounds a bit...calmer. Couldn't you add the boost in post? Is there something special about the CMIT's particular boost? I've always wondered if there was something special about "presence boosts". I especially like the 416's "presence boost" if that is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Yes, I suppose you could add in the Hi-boost in post, but it helps on those occasion where there is no post. It's not really a presence boost, or what I think a presence boost is. It's much higher. This also relates to the question whether we should eq on set or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Just to add one more point: the CMIT has got a very handy Hi-boost to help with a dulled sound in a zep with windjammer. Also in some rooms this helps, too. But I don't know if the CS3e has got that as well The (single) switch on the CS3e is for a low cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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