MattRobertson7 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hello all, I am a video producer who's making the transition to getting more serious about audio, and really intrigued by the possibilities to take my audio to the next level. I do lots of work on youtube with poetry artists making videos i would really like to start to boom my exteriors with a shotgun, and am looking to pay around $1,000 or a little more for it. I currently use DPA 4061's for exteriors, and they actually work very well (although with the work I do i've even had issues with the 4061's clipping at the mic level, and I got the 4061 to replace my 4060 which would clip like crazy with a louder voice), but i'm looking for the added rejection of a shotgun and somewhat thicker sound (although the DPA's are the most "full" sounding lav i've ever heard). Another issue with the lav's is it can be tough obviously to minimize cable noise when recording a performer who gestures much. I am almost always either a 1 man band, or have an assistant on shoot who knows absolutely nothing about booming, so i'd be relying on good c-stand placement to capture with the shotgun. So basically my needs for the shotgun would be can handle a fairly high spl (loud delivery), not too tight of a pattern, so that it can be slightly forgiving for my placement (although I realize this would slightly decrease the "reach" yes?), and obviously sound good (yes thats subjective) recording dialogue. It would be an extra plus if its a mic that can cut well with the DPA/4053 also, but thats not the biggest part of my decision. I've got my eyes on some of the usual suspects, mkh 416, mkh50, been researching on here too, just trying to wrap my head around all the subtleties between all the models, and what would fit me best in my situation. I also have a audio technica 4053b which I use for interiors but doesn't seem like a great option for exteriors. Can't wait to hear your responses! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 416 in proper "wind garb." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwil Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 +1 on the 416 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I question the use of a 416 as having "not too tight of a pattern" as mentioed by the op. Perhaps something in the Rodes line might be more appropriate or a Sanken CS2. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Osborn Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Perhaps something in the Rodes line might be more appropriate or a Sanken CS2. Eric +1 on Eric's recommendations. The Rode NTG-3 has a slightly more forgiving pattern than the 416 and is nearly impervious to humidity. The Sanken CS2 is also a great call. Agree with John to get wind protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Agree with Eric and Doug. The NTG-3 is nicer off axis than the 416. Wind protection is a must it you are doing outside work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I doubt the mic was clipping, it sounds more like a gain structure problem. You want better audio, hire a sound guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pscottm Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 neumann kmr81 fits the 'not too tight' description pretty well. it's probably the 'loosest' shotgun i've ever enjoyed using. very musical sound, if that matters at all. pricey new, but a nice used one can be found for under $1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Nobody suggested the Schoeps CMIT, but I think that would fit the bill. Not cheap (and well over the o.p.'s $1000 budget), but it's a great-sounding mic under many circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I recommended a 416 not just for sound characteristics, but partly because it's one if the most reliable, and bullet-proof, under most any unforeseen circumstance. In the hands of an amateur, that's a huge plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattRobertson7 Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I recommended a 416 not just for sound characteristics, but partly because it's one if the most reliable, and bullet-proof, under most any unforeseen circumstance. In the hands of an amateur, that's a huge plus. Very true! Good point. I doubt the mic was clipping, it sounds more like a gain structure problem. You want better audio, hire a sound guy. I understand that, but i'm not sure where there could be a gain staging problem since I was using a straight xlr feed into my fostex dc-r302. I would understand this with a wireless system, but seems weird for it to be a gain staging system when it was just the xlr in straight to the fostex, and it wasn't clipping on the meters at all. If I mic closely with the 4061 with a loud voice it will still clip at certain spots that are especially loud. Nothing as bad as the 4060 though. Would it be advantageous to maybe pick up a 4062 for even more headroom for loud voices? (I know separate topic). And I totally understand that hiring an audio guy is adventageous, however the fact remains that some shoots just don't have the budget for them, and I really would like to learn by making these mistakes while I still can and improve myself, and then hire audio guys when I have the budget o bigger shoots. neumann kmr81 fits the 'not too tight' description pretty well. it's probably the 'loosest' shotgun i've ever enjoyed using. very musical sound, if that matters at all. pricey new, but a nice used one can be found for under $1000. Awesome! I'll check that one out, never heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Get a used Rode NTG-3. Should do the trick. Has an MKH60ish pattern but sounds like and is as durable as a 416. I remember when I first used an NTG-3 a few years ago and I was floored. I hadn't yet used a 416 at that time and I was surprised by the NTG-3's bite for dialogue indoors/outdoors, but it was looser than that same mic and sounds pretty good indoors. It also gives more bass. I had actually used an MKH 60 at one point (I was really new back then and didn't know anything about mikes) and I thought the NTG-3 sounded better. I own a 416 now, but I'd highly consider an NTG-3 if one came up. It also has the massive durability factor of the 416 and is also very RF shielded. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafaeldelauz Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I will go for the Neumann 81 too, very loose pattern, great sound (in my opinion, much better sound than the NTg3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 If the choice is now between a KMR81 and an NTG-3, I would choose the 81, too. Although buying a used mic could be risky. Buying a new NTG-3 will still be cheaper than a used 81. so you'll have money to spend on a got windjammer, etc. With regards to the DPAs clipping, that serms highly unlikeky, even with the 4060. there must have been something wrong with your setup. Wrong setting, wrong adapter, faulty cable, faulty mic. Whatever, there are many possibilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 There is a risk when buying a used mike, but it is a used NTG-3/416 after all. Chances are it'll still work quite well. If you mean the 81, hmm might be a small risk there. I believe the DPAs have pretty high spl. They used them for singing in Les Mis', didn't they? One of those DPA lavs. Not sure which one. EDIT: Let's not forget that the 81 is definitely not as durable as the 416 or NTG-3. In either RFI or humidity. Look a used NTG-3 w/ blimp on trew audio for $850. http://www.trewaudio.com/consignment/microphones/#8134 Is that actually a good price? I think he could get it for cheaper couldn't he? UPDATE: There are in fact a bunch of used ones selling on ebay right now. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Perhaps the OP should consider something like an MKH 60. I've never A/B'd the NTG-3/MKH 60. Is the 60 significantly looser than the NTG-3? Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André Boisvert Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 EDIT: Let's not forget that the 81 is definitely not as durable as the 416 or NTG-3. In either RFI or humidity. My 81 was my only boom mic for 16 years and never, ever did I have an RFI or humidity issue. Granted, the RF landscape has changed in that time, but humidity hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Same comment. Got an 81 for around 12 years and also never had an RFI or humidity problem. In fact, it saved my day a few times when RFI has been an issue with my CS3e. Plus its pad has also been much appreciated on some (loud) occasions. It's been less used since I got a CMIT 5U a few years ago but I'm sure not planning about selling it. I never compared myself but I heard it blends quite well with the MKH60, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 The MKH60, as others have pointed out, has a pretty loose pattern, and is a great sounding mic. It's not going to be as cheap as the Rode, either way, but I have one that I may be willing to sell if you're interested. I would say it definitely has a "smoother" sound than the 416 with a more forgiving pattern for what you're looking to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Same comment. Got an 81 for around 12 years and also never had an RFI or humidity problem. In fact, it saved my day a few times when RFI has been an issue with my CS3e. Plus its pad has also been much appreciated on some (loud) occasions. It's been less used since I got a CMIT 5U a few years ago but I'm sure not planning about selling it. I never compared myself but I heard it blends quite well with the MKH60, also. What is the Neumann equivalent with numbers like 184? They're supposed to be updated versions for RFI. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André Boisvert Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 My 81 was my only boom mic for 16 years and never, ever did I have an RFI or humidity issue. Granted, the RF landscape has changed in that time, but humidity hasn't. Thanks to the I'll correct myself. I did a shoot in a tattoo shop years ago, and whenever the machine was activated, my Neumann would completely distort. Memory is what it is. Anybody seen my keys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 " I've got my eyes on some of the usual suspects, mkh 416, mkh50, " the MKH-50 is not an interference tube design, thus not considered a "shotgun". I agree that the "DPA clipping" issue is a user setup issue, possibly overloading the Fostex mic-pre rather than the DPA mic or its pre clipping (possible cure = a pad) there are a lot of good shotgun mic's to select from amongst including several reasonably priced AT's, Sankens, Schoeps, Sennheiser, Neumann, DPA, etc.; perhaps you should get on the blower with our usual suspects for a discussion of the popular options.(remember, they are not on commission). you want a good sturdy arrow to help you improve your archery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 you want a good sturdy arrow to help you improve your archery. That's the best laugh I've had all day! (It's been a long day.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 3 numerals... 416 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 For a listen to the NTG-3 and all its faults. Around 1:51 in the first video, it goes out to exterior. I think the OP is interested in that. Certainly not as tight as a 416, but he's not gonna get better with an MKH 60 or 81. You can also look at all of 8dreammerchant8's videos for sound from the NTG-3. It's the only mike we had back then (no lavs), and I only boomed a few (such as one of the ones below). You can hear us go off-axis and all kinds of stuff. We went into a beachtek into DSLR, mind you, so there's major clipping. Maybe not the greatest preamp.... I was trying to explain to the director that he should bring the gain down and just use compression and EQ in post...but he just didn't get me. I also often didn't get to wear the headphones...such as in the terrible off-axis bedroom scene in the aliens one. You can also assume that no noise reduction was used on the audio though the director probably did have Soundtrack Pro and its noise reduction tool. Oh yeah I'm also in the first video at the end in a surprise appearance. Ahh college. When we could goof around. http://youtu.be/Qkb493lDmOw http://youtu.be/_n-iKRSOuEA Here's another one, in a less acoustically favorable spot. I didn't boom this one, so I can't tell you if it was boomed properly or not. As for the title, well I didn't produce it (there's nothing NSFW though, just to let you know) and the director wanted to imitate the ALL CAPITALS format of youtube videos and a couple of other attributes of them popular youtube videos. http://youtu.be/Do8SZRDXaqk I really enjoyed the sound of the NTG-3 back in those days. I think I might use an NTG-3 again once I have some spare $$$ around. Some mixers still use a 416 indoors because of its highly intelligible sound (as you may notice in the above videos). NTG-3 is also looser than my CS3e which is sometimes hard to use because of the whole OMB thing. The MK41 is great but offers much less rejection and might be a little too flat for the low budget web series stuff that I do. They're all tools though. I got a CS3e really because the 416 didn't give me what I wanted outside. I'd imagine if the CS3e didn't exist I'd be using an 82i, 816, or mkh70 (if that did exist in this made up world). And I'd probably use the MK41 in the locker room above, though the NTG-3 doesn't do that badly. Ideally I think I might want a Schoeps CMIT. Loose shotgun pattern. Great indoor response. Light. But too expensive. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.