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Sound Reports and Reference Tone


Den Nic

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I do as others have mentioned and create a voice ID and -20db tone (@ 400Hz, not 1KHz) at the head of each roll. I also find myself using the -20dB tone for backup file markers very often. Since I sometimes do documentary / "reality" style shoots with crews who use multiple DSLRs, I will leave the backup recorder rolling during the shoot and only start / stop the primary recorder for takes. Then after each take is stopped on the primary recorder I run the -20dB tone for a second or two to mark the take splits on the backup file. This is so that in the event I need to turn them in to post, the editor can split them easily and identify new takes. The reason for all of this is that many times in documentary / "reality" situations the crew will roll under one of two pressured situations: They will either A.) Roll without telling you and ask for the sound files on that roll after the fact or B.) Roll very quickly & then stop shortly after, creating many short takes where they think they are about to catch action and then don't. In those situations it's easy to miss a roll and I like to know that I always have a roll going. Just another use for tone I thought I'd add to the conversation.

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I still like to do a little test record every morning, tone, a short intro of the job, then a readout of the TC count for 15-20 seconds.  I then play it back to make sure that everything is working.  This file is done after I set the TC clock for the day so it always comes up as the first file in the stack/WaveAgent report.  Since this same stack o'files will go to the editor, to audio post and in mp3 form to transcribers I think it's an ok idea to have a voice slate about what job/day/framerate we are at.  It also has aspects of being just another Empty Old School Movie Ritual, but we old farts will have our crotchets.

 

philp

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I have heard of people mirroring yesterdays work and not todays to SD cards or DVD Rams. A voice slate should take care of that confusion quickly should it happen. An on set editor last week said they liked that I voice slated each take. I said thanks, it was an old habit I probably would have trouble breaking at this point in time. Whatever works is my motto. BTW, isn't this the 3rd version of this topic we've had here at jwsound?

CrewC

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I have heard of people mirroring yesterdays work and not todays to SD cards or DVD Rams. A voice slate should take care of that confusion quickly should it happen. An on set editor last week said they liked that I voice slated each take. I said thanks, it was an old habit I probably would have trouble breaking at this point in time. Whatever works is my motto. BTW, isn't this the 3rd version of this topic we've had here at jwsound?

CrewC

Yeah but everyone knows their lines so well now...

 

philp

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I have heard of people mirroring yesterdays work and not todays to SD cards or DVD Rams. A voice slate should take care of that confusion quickly should it happen. An on set editor last week said they liked that I voice slated each take. I said thanks, it was an old habit I probably would have trouble breaking at this point in time. Whatever works is my motto. BTW, isn't this the 3rd version of this topic we've had here at jwsound?

 

Yes, and yes!

 

The funniest sound slates I ever heard in post were from New Orleans mixer Jeffrey Haupt on Billy Friedkin's movie Bug a few years ago (2006). He was hilarious, just describing the location and the circumstances, and it gave me something to look forward to when we worked on the dailies for that project. I think it is helpful particularly in nonlinear post to have the first file of the day have verbal confirmation of the date, the sampling frequency, timecode rate, name of the project, and all that other stuff. Jeff would go on to provide the mood of the people around him, what people were wearing, what they had for breakfast, the weather, and a bunch of hilarious details -- totally cracked me up, and I bet me and the sound supervisor were the only people who ever heard it, since this didn't get transferred in dailies.

 

I figure, we really should do a test recording just to check the signal path at the beginning of the day, and it takes 20 seconds to rattle off all the information and provide :10 seconds of 1K tone -- not a big deal. At least then, we know there aren't any catastrophic problems, like the CF card failing, tracks not properly routed, and all that stuff. I use Agent Mulder's philosophy from The X-Files: Trust No One, especially the gear. Making a test recording is all part of that process. 

 

I have heard sound dailies where the mixer specifically says "Folder #39", but I cling to "Roll Numbers" just out of nostalgia. Hey, I work with a commercial director who still says, "roll film!" and "check the gate!", even though we've never shot on anything but Red and Alexa digital. Same deal with him, and I get a kick out of it. I don't doubt there will be a time in the not-so-distant future when young people will say, "I don't understand. Why do some people call movies 'film'?"  Sad.

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BTW, isn't this the 3rd version of this topic we've had here at jwsound? CrewC
Maybe so, but it's the first time I'm reading it and I'm enjoying it. Learning something new every day here at JWSound. Or maybe something old, in this case. I voice-slate, too, but only in those cases, where the AC (or whoever dors it) calls out the wrong take. Or tail-sticks get missed by the camera. That happens a lot. Over here in Germany, it seems to be common practice for the clappers to announce every take with their full name (except for roll number), scene and shot number. Some will even call out the project's name every single time. I don't think those few extra seconds matter much over the course of a whole shoot day.

It also has aspects of being just another Empty Old School Movie Ritual, but we old farts will have our crotchets. philp

No, I disagree. I think it's very good practice, not empty at all, and should definitely be kept alive. Although I don't know what a chrotchet is in this context. I only know it from music theory, but that doesn't seem to fit in this case. It's just wise to make sure your gear works before the first take. I also check my comteks, radio mics and all to avoid failure in the first take. To record all that info as the first file of the day, seems to be very useful, too. Before I got to be a PSM, I worked in a recording studio, recording local bands using large reel-to-reel machines. There too, I would always make a verbal announcement on the tape to describe who/what/when/how was being recorded. Years later a sound report might have been lost, but the verbal announcement will always be there.
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  • 2 weeks later...

I put the roll and cut beeps only through my headphones so that I have another way to know I'm rolling or not.

I don't see any usefulness in laying them on a track that breaks and is distinct from other files but there maybe a use that I'm not seeing.

What I do every roll is to make an ID file with all the info and I count out the timecode for 10 seconds or so. This has helped us quickly pinpoint issues where our telecine room has been set for another session at 48K. Our present show is film and I record at 48.048K so the countoff of TC shows when things are set incorrectly. When the room is set wrong the timecode will be off about 30-50 seconds so having the count out of the TC shows up easily.

Calling out scene and takes helps keep everyone on the same page: ACs, myself, and script supervisor. The AC calling slates seems like an east coast thing from my experience. I prefer calling my own SC/Tk numbers so that I don't have to try to change the metadata after I've rolled which distracts me from mixing. It's also easier to hear for everyone on comteks via my slate mic than having leaving it to another department.

YMMV

Scott Harber CAS

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I agree with Scott -- that's definitely important on the first day of a long shoot if it's a telecine project, so the scanning/transfer people can confirm that "what they see is what they get." I don't think it's necessary to do that for the rest of the shoot days unless you change the set up (new mixer, new recorder, new TC generator, etc.). 

 

The "audible roll slate" is something I do on the beginning of every shoot day, just as a test, so I can verify that 1K tone is reasonable. I have encountered situations where somebody was digitizing and the tone was coming in way low for some weird reason. Nowadays, that's very rare. I do still call out scene & take numbers just in case whoever is syncing the files gets totally lost, or there's a false start, or the timecode winds up to be bad. 

 

I remember in particular a big-budget makeup infomercial (over a million bucks) where they had hired a European sound mixer who accidentally rolled on everything at 25fps out of habit. This wasn't discovered until the third day when the footage showed up. Since it was being shot and finished in America, and the film was now at 23.98, this caused no end of trouble in post. We had to jump through hoops to get it all to sync up and stay synced... and of course, all the numbers were bad and we had to sync totally by eye. Not a huge disaster, but enough to add an extra couple of hours per day in post, which was thousands of dollars extra in transfer costs. All for the sake of one switch. The producer was so upset about it, he threatened to make the sound mixer pay for it, but me and the other guy working the project said, "don't sweat it -- we'll knock a little off the bill" (which we did). Crap happens, plus they were very nice people with a beautiful-looking spot. 

 

If we had not had audible slates, I might still be there, toiling through the night to try to find a few missing takes (which happened because the guy rolled straight through without stopping)...

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Until recently, I began every sound roll (folder, for those doing this 10 years or less) something like this:

 

"It's February 18, 2013. This is sound roll 67 of "The Life and Times of Blankville" recorded on a [recorder type] at 48.048. Timecode is 30frames non-drop, free run, time of day, jammed to the cameras and slates. Mono mix is on track one, prefader ISOs on remaining tracks. Everything mirrored to compact flash with Broadcast Wave Poly files, 24 bits. Coming up is a tone set to -20 on the dBfs meter, 0 on the VU (tone.........). I sometimes ended with "If anyone actually listens to this, please call [phone number]. After thousands of times, no one ever called.

 

This information may have been useful in the days before global warming, when we also wrote the same info on the tape boxes and paper sound reports. But all of this info and more is written on every file we record, and often automatically transferred to our sound reports. It's clear what the lineup tone level is when played in the digital domain (no need to announce it), and it should be a given that it is intended to be lined up at 0 on a VU meter (which should never happen with original sync dialog tracks).

 

So, now for a head ID I simply say something like "It's February 18th, 2013. This is sound roll 64 for the show "[show name]", episode 116." That's all. There is no real good reason for even this, but I find it cool and comforting to hear the date and number when using sound reports as a cross-reference for instantly accessing a particular sound roll from days or weeks prior. Maybe seasoned post folks sometimes do too.

 

Regarding the sound mixer being responsible for announcing the scene and take number: Yes, I do it, as nearly all double system production sound mixers do, at least in the US and likely throughout North America and beyond.  "Pre-slating" we used to call it. An original reason for this was to save the more expensive film by not rolling the camera while "scene 1 take 1" was being said. While this reason is becoming invalid with the demise of film, a still valid reason is to avoid the confusing orchestration that would be required for the assistants of multiple cameras (one sound mixer = one person announcing the scene and take numbers). However, when just one digital camera is being used, it does make sense for the camera assistant to announce the scene and take number. After all, they are the one holding the slate and have the best view of the scene and take number written on it.

 

Adapt or go home.

 

Glen Trew

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Even if it's multiple cams it's still usually a common slate.  I still like redundant info, even though it makes me look old school.  I also like to use the opportunity of the "day slate" at the start of the job to wish my post friends a good day.  And then I derive great confidence from hearing my own voice (and a tone) played back.  "Wow, it actually all works!"

 

philp

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Even if it's multiple cams it's still usually a common slate.  I still like redundant info, even though it makes me look old school.  I also like to use the opportunity of the "day slate" at the start of the job to wish my post friends a good day.  And then I derive great confidence from hearing my own voice (and a tone) played back.  "Wow, it actually all works!"

 

philp

The problem with the slate question in the original post is that it's hard to say what "usually" is. In my world of movies and episodics, there is usually (95% or so) a slate for each camera. Even if there is 4 cameras and three slates (for example) each camera is usually  (there's that word again) slated individually.

 

gt

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I'm actually surprised no one reads out the TC of the file for a few seconds. This is by far the quickest and easiest way to see how the sample rate is set incorrectly if the numbers being read don't match the ones they are seeing on playback.

Maybe I'm the only one living int the 48.048 world but it has helped me cut to the chase a few times on our show this season where the telecine room was set for 48K from other sessions.

 

Scott Harber

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I'm actually surprised no one reads out the TC of the file for a few seconds. This is by far the quickest and easiest way to see how the sample rate is set incorrectly if the numbers being read don't match the ones they are seeing on playback.

Maybe I'm the only one living int the 48.048 world but it has helped me cut to the chase a few times on our show this season where the telecine room was set for 48K from other sessions.

 

Scott Harber

 

Hey, Scott, I do the timecode chant as part of the Sound Roll head ID (the first segment recorded on the day) and also all the rest of the "legacy" (read: OLD) stuff like date, name of project, reference tone, etc. The verbal timecode count off was suggested to me by Marc Wielage I believe, who has a ton of stories to tell about how this has saved him in post on many jobs. Thankfully, for the most part I have gotten all the numbers right before we even start shooting for most of the projects I have worked on. If we have had the luxury of real world test in pre-production, I might not do the timecode chant on the production rolls, relying that everyone will be "on the same page" regarding timecode, sample rate, etc.

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Hey, Scott, I do the timecode chant as part of the Sound Roll head ID (the first segment recorded on the day) and also all the rest of the "legacy" (read: OLD) stuff like date, name of project, reference tone, etc. The verbal timecode count off was suggested to me by Marc Wielage I believe, who has a ton of stories to tell about how this has saved him in post on many jobs. 

 

I think this was more important in the old telecine film dailies world (1985-2009), which is kind of waning now. But I can recall several cases where this "belt and suspenders" approach was appreciated, where we'd play the intro head slate and the sound mixer would count off the timecode. Once in awhile, the numbers would be totally wrong, and we'd hit Defcon 4 and check all the switches, cables, reference signals, and so on. Usually, it was our fault, and/or we'd discover the previous moron in the room had yanked a cable inside a rack without telling anybody. 

 

In the non-linear digital world, I don't think it's as much of a problem provided the editorial staff is just copying the files straight across and not subjecting them to a conversion/capturing process. If the file is just a straight import, it should be OK, assuming typical 23.98 timecode and 48kHz. A 48.048 workflow is a little trickier, but that can work provided the project settings are correct and the same procedures are followed every day.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Actually, the Camera Assistants calling the scene and take and then smacking the slate was abandoned in the film days. That's why sound mixers began to pre-slate the scene and take number. Then when speed was called by camera, they just marked it, calling out "A Camera marker", B Camera marker etc. Saved a lot of film.

 

Now in the days of HD cameras, footage is cheap and the cameras never cut... so camera assistants could now read the phone book, reply to a text and then casually hit the sticks. A new paradigm for sure.

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  • 1 month later...

It's a new concept for me as well, and rather than looking at points on magnetic tape, we're typically recording discrete files. But with the corners being cut without a formal slate, file sequences not matching up, letting it roll between takes and over false takes is probably going to happen over the course of the day. So to add why beeps would be useful, I'll suggest that a sine wave is a really easy thing to spot if you're the editor and you are scrubbing the wave visually.

what's the point of doing the head/tail beeping today?

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Since I sometimes do documentary / "reality" style shoots with crews who use multiple DSLRs, I will leave the backup recorder rolling during the shoot and only start / stop the primary recorder for takes. 

Toy robot, yours is a better explanation of what I'm getting at. Those sine transients on a long file are easier to look for.

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It's a new concept for me as well, and rather than looking at points on magnetic tape, we're typically recording discrete files. But with the corners being cut without a formal slate, file sequences not matching up, letting it roll between takes and over false takes is probably going to happen over the course of the day. So to add why beeps would be useful, I'll suggest that a sine wave is a really easy thing to spot if you're the editor and you are scrubbing the wave visually.

Yes, that's true, I suppose. I always thought that even with long takes, you'd have one long picture file and one long sound file and you just sync them up one. You can just look at the picture to find out when a new take comnences. Although the beeps in the audio file may be an even quicker way
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