jozzafunk Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I was recording last night in the hospital for the midnight rush of drunks for a doco style show ( shaping up to be very interesting ) - Straight away there was 1 person that became quite agitated at the sight of the kit. Later we were shooting another bloke getting cleaned up - we'd asked him and he was happy to be filmed, however after a bit he seemed to become quite agitated and I ended up tapping the shooter on the shoulder and motioning to bail out, which we did. I wondered afterward's whether I'd made the right call, and had cost them some valuable shots. I decided I wasn't interested in taking any risks but wonder what folks' limits are when they're on a shoot that involves challenging terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Many times you have to look out for your own safety and make the call as to whether situations are not worth the risk. Hell, it's only a movie, it's not worth getting hurt over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 No shoot is worth getting injured over, and if you feel that the situation is becoming unsafe then you have every right to make the call to abort. I'm surprised that if you are shooting in a hospital emergency room at a time when all the drunks were showing up, that you weren't accompanied by a security guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think the limit should be about the same as you would define it in your non-professional life. You did the right thing. Don't jeopardize your health. I never liked it when I would shoot with a producer and/or DP that don't care about the people in the shot and surrounding, as long as they get their shot. I once got into a discussion with a producer who almost violently attacked some kids who were standing around and walking into the shots. I told him if it was my kid that he just pushed away I would have a problem with that. I never worked with the guy again but would do the same now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 First off be safe. Somebody drunk in an ER is possible to be in a bad state of mind, so don't kick the hornet's nest if that's what it looks like. Trust your gut. There will always be somebody else very willing to talk to camera with a totally crazy story. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but on the other side of the camera..... I have to be honest, if I was rushed to the emergency room for any reason and a TV crew was trying to film me for some mystery reason, I would be pissed. Especially considering how long you can sit there waiting for somebody to help you, I would feel trapped if a film crew had me cornered like that and rolled. I also always wondered about the legality of somebody drunk signing a release. I guess it depends on your Country, or State if you are in the US. I've always been curious about releases. I was recently working on a reality series and one guy was in a documentary a few years earlier. He's only in it for a minute, but he said that when he signed it, he was totally drunk (which is why they wanted him), and the girls that talked him into signing a release said it was for a school video project and their teacher required permission. Now the "student project" is on DVD and Netflix. I worked on a doc TV series with law enforcement and we had to blur a lot of faces (because Pennsylvania requires everyone to sign away their image, their voice and their property). That said, we had a surprising number of people willing to talk to us and show off whatever the action was right up until they had handcuffs put on. That's where a good field producer can first talk to people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I worked on an ER show a few years ago. We were forbidden to roll on anyone in an "altered state" for legal reasons. Even if they did sign a release, if they were drunk or high, it is invalid. Someone who is intoxicated can't sign a release or a contract and it still hold up in court. I am surprised that the hospital will let you roll on intoxicated people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Avoid eye contact Get a production person to deal with it mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozzafunk Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Yeah that's kind of exactly it Mike - He was mumbling under his breath and becoming agitated and I saw a look in his eyes and decided it was time to go. We weren't actually shooting his face, hands and angles and dripping blood and stuff. I think it was the right call on the day. I can't speak for shooters but I think as a soundie, you have to be quite observant and pick up on things others might miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Martin Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Yeah that's kind of exactly it Mike - He was mumbling under his breath and becoming agitated and I saw a look in his eyes and decided it was time to go. We weren't actually shooting his face, hands and angles and dripping blood and stuff. I think it was the right call on the day. I can't speak for shooters but I think as a soundie, you have to be quite observant and pick up on things others might miss. Absolutely. I have saved numerous shooters from stepping off ledges, tripping over small children, walking into traffic, etc... It's their job to look at the story through the lens, which often takes them out of the reality surrounding them. I do feel it is often part of our job (especially on a very small ENG/Doc crew) to look out for the folks behind the lens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Absolutely. I have saved numerous shooters from stepping off ledges, tripping over small children, walking into traffic, etc... It's their job to look at the story through the lens, which often takes them out of the reality surrounding them. I do feel it is often part of our job (especially on a very small ENG/Doc crew) to look out for the folks behind the lens. Bravo on this. I've saved many shooters from many hazards, and they're always thankful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Absolutely. I have saved numerous shooters from stepping off ledges, tripping over small children, walking into traffic, etc... It's their job to look at the story through the lens, which often takes them out of the reality surrounding them. I do feel it is often part of our job (especially on a very small ENG/Doc crew) to look out for the folks behind the lens. I agree with Alex above: Bravo for your attitude. I've heard from camera operators that there's a natural trend in life to feel like you're impervious to harm when you're looking through the viewfinder of a camera, as if everything you see is a movie, but nothing could be further from the truth. I never saved a cameraman's life, but I did once help grab a handheld camera when the operator tripped, and he was extremely grateful that the lens didn't hit the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 " that you weren't accompanied by a security guard. " the production company should have provided one for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 We were forbidden to roll on anyone in an "altered state" for legal reasons. Even if they did sign a release, if they were drunk or high, it is invalid. Someone who is intoxicated can't sign a release or a contract and it still hold up in court. I am surprised that the hospital will let you roll on intoxicated people. +1 A contract is not legal if the parties involved are not of MENTAL and LEGAL capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 +1 A contract is not legal if the parties involved are not of MENTAL and LEGAL capacity. Isn't that *part* of the reason that guy got in trouble for the Girls Gone Wild videos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlimp Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 First off be safe. Somebody drunk in an ER is possible to be in a bad state of mind, so don't kick the hornet's nest if that's what it looks like. Trust your gut. There will always be somebody else very willing to talk to camera with a totally crazy story. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but on the other side of the camera..... I have to be honest, if I was rushed to the emergency room for any reason and a TV crew was trying to film me for some mystery reason, I would be pissed. Especially considering how long you can sit there waiting for somebody to help you, I would feel trapped if a film crew had me cornered like that and rolled. I also always wondered about the legality of somebody drunk signing a release. I guess it depends on your Country, or State if you are in the US. I've always been curious about releases. I was recently working on a reality series and one guy was in a documentary a few years earlier. He's only in it for a minute, but he said that when he signed it, he was totally drunk (which is why they wanted him), and the girls that talked him into signing a release said it was for a school video project and their teacher required permission. Now the "student project" is on DVD and Netflix. I worked on a doc TV series with law enforcement and we had to blur a lot of faces (because Pennsylvania requires everyone to sign away their image, their voice and their property). That said, we had a surprising number of people willing to talk to us and show off whatever the action was right up until they had handcuffs put on. That's where a good field producer can first talk to people. exactly the problem with my doco. i've been filming with three former homeless guys for about 1.5 years, they signed the release, signed gratification receipts, and now that i'm almost done with the rough cut i'm wondering if i'll run into major problems in case any of them changes their mind. sometimes it was hard to tell whether they were intoxicated or not, one of them has even stopped drinking and found a job (which of course is great), and while his personal development is part of the film, i'm afraid he might insist on having the earlier material removed or defused. even though he signed the relase when he was already clean, it's kind of complicated. ah dammit what a hassle. i need to get back to doing sound alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozzafunk Posted April 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 I was on a doco shoot the other day and at lunch the shooter and assist closed up the van, and rushed off to the cafe... leaving the F900 sitting on the sidewalk on a busy shopping street. They're damn lucky I was hanging about to do my going to lunch checks, and looked pretty damn sheepish when I wandered in holding their rig while they're sitting there with director and talent, how's that for watching the cx dept's back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 That will certainly get you re-hired!!! Maybe even a bump up in pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azw Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 TheBlimp- You should be fine with your releases but this is also why distributors will require require you to purchase E&O insurance upon delivery of the picture for release. Azw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Reilly Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 How do these "Cops" style shows get around/get releases? I know everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame.. But not those 15 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shastapete Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 It is amazing what people will sign/do for $100 cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 It is amazing what people will sign/do for $100 cash Yeah, I mean...I could use a bennie right about now. What do I gotta do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 How do these "Cops" style shows get around/get releases? I know everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame.. But not those 15 minutes. That's a good question and one I've always pondered. Especially since everyone is technically "innocent until proven guilty". I don't get how the show COPS isn't somehow sued for defamation of character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Yeah, I mean...I could use a bennie right about now. What do I gotta do? 5-Hour Energy Drinks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 That's a good question and one I've always pondered. Especially since everyone is technically "innocent until proven guilty". I don't get how the show COPS isn't somehow sued for defamation of character. "Cops" is considered a documentary, much like a news event. You're following a public servant in the performance of their duties. In more than one instance, courts have found that it is in the public's interest that police be taped in the performance of their duties. For instance, dash cams in police cruisers not only help the police in court, they have also helped put bad cops away. Another factor that keeps them out of legal trouble is that "Cops" would never air any segment that isn't an obvious case of "good guy arrests bad guy". It is kind of tough to go to court and claim defamation when they have you on tape breaking the law and resisting arrest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) " How do these "Cops" style shows get around/get releases? " generally, it depends, but I do believe COPS gets releases, or blurs! Edited April 16, 2013 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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