Philip Perkins Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 The folks I spoke w/ @ Lectro indicated that the R400a RX was the same technology and equivalent to the 411, but in a larger package etc. I looked at it and although it is bigger than a 411 it doesn't seem big to someone who came up on Vega 66 and HME receivers (me), it runs on DC (somewhat more than a 411 it is true) and is rack mountable. The price is enough lower than a 411 for me to consider it for a cart etc system. Does anyone have any experience with these? thanks Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I had two units on block 21 in a bag. They worked great, except for the rear mounted antenna connectors. I now have UCR411A and don't see any difference really. Yes they are a little bigger, yes they could be a little more fragile. The guy that bought them from me as been using them for more than a year now ( in a BAG ) and he loves them. Now on the other end what about a Venue system. I might be wrong but if you are buying two R400 it would cost more than a Venue and two module. My two cents Pascal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I HAVE not used these, but just looking at the design of the units, I have problems with them for Motion picture use. For out of a bag stuff, I would pony up the cash and get the regular 411 series.... period... As for the Venue system, I think the whole idea is off kilter a bit when thinking of using it on location motion picture recording. I had many a conversation with people who had them as well as with Lectro.... The folks I spoke to were not that happy with performance.... And for that matter, many are...These units were NOT as I understand it designed for use specifically in the Motion picture business. They ARE sold as such, but in my humble opinion are not the best suited for this purpose. They were designed for use in racks for theatres, halls, and churches...... They lack portability..... and range... I don't care what they say. As for the the LectroR400a.... I know they are DC and CAN be portable and you can use them as such, but I would much prefer the regular 411 series for their portability, durability, size and flexibility of use. And to boot the rear antenna is a pain in the ass. These should really be on a cart ..... for use as designed.... the little feet are an example of how they were set up for use... As I have said on this forum many times, I am often too far, in a bad spot, or away from the fray of filming for my own peace of mind to run my radios from my cart..... I always prefer to run mic cable rather than use shark fins or antenna cable..... So again, the venue system is NOT an option for me. What ever you choose to do, best of luck..... I am sure many will disagree with me, but oh well, after you bought them, what are you supposed to say! They do look nice tucked away on a cart, all nicely mounted up, but for me, the buck stops there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Well, yeah. the R400as would not be one's first choice for a bag rig but I could figure out a way to run a couple in a bag if I needed to. I was thinking of cart use for them, or more accurately in my "radio rack" that can be taken off the cart and moved onto a distant set connected to me w/ mic cables. The prices I see for these are around $600 ea. The equivalent Venue RX is a VRT, which is about $500, (requiring a Venue base station @ about $1100), and this combo could not be used in a bag at all. (I know there is the Venue "Field" base station (about $1900), but that is way bigger a thing than what I want in my bag.) Anyhow, I'm looking at this as a way to go for the jobs I'm doing now. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Scott, Of course you can get a long throw of 500 meters.... line of sight ...... in an situation where radio signals are free to roam.... but... in my world of filming on or in buildings filled with electronics, Center of the city...lighting equipment, stands, rigging, scaffolds and people all over.... this is most often NOT the case. Sure they will work.... But clean hitless signals are what I am talking about..... not just working..... In these situations I want to see 500 meters..... I was in a home in Pasadena recently, on a really clean Freq. Wireless units downstairs, inside, Transmitters on humans, upstairs in back bedrooms..... The units struggle a bit in this type of situation.... They always seem to just a bit..... Can you hear, Yes, do they work.... yes, are they TOTALLY clean.... not always. I am not looking for the units to work until they "crap out" I am looking for super clean audio.... period. Superbowl? well..... units line of sight..... good freq. coordination...... usually less than a hundred yards..... more like 50 or so..... enough said... I agree, we use many things that are not meant for the application at hand, but, that Venue was pushed for film use, and it struggles a bit from what I hear from those who have used it.... thats all I am saying.... Like I said, many have had luck with it..... I personally would not use it for the reasons I have stated..... just an opinion my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I use the venue system. I have been up to 500 meters from the location that the wireless has been used and it worked fine. Using one dipole and one shark fin. I have gotten about 1.5 city blocks out of UCR411a's and UM400's before they crap out. Today if you watch the super bowl you will see one of the largest use of wireless in any one location. True it isnt a motion picture but their requirements are just as demanding. We use a lot of equipment that wasn't "designed" for motion picture applications. Was that 500m line of sight? City or rural? That's a great range. So you think you get BETTER range etc from the Venue stuff than from stand alone RX? That is something to consider if true. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Was that 500m line of sight? City or rural? That's a great range. So you think you get BETTER range etc from the Venue stuff than from stand alone RX? That is something to consider if true. Philip Perkins You DO NOT get BETTER range with a venue system... There I said it.... Can you get good signal yes.... but better.... no. It depends on many factors..... All things exactly the same..... it would not be better. IMHO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Harber Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 I have found that the Lectro 16B multi-coupler combined w/ a 411 blows doors off the venue. In a non-A/B situation where I was at a location using the same blocks. Different freqs but clear none the less. The multi coupler definitely had better range by about 1/3 and my stress level was lower by about 90% which may be some sort of inverse ratio for you math wizes. The Venue is definitely convenient and small but there are other better, cheaper alternatives for cart work in my book. Scott Harber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 The folks I spoke w/ @ Lectro indicated that the R400a RX was the same technology and equivalent to the 411, but in a larger package etc. I looked at it and although it is bigger than a 411 it doesn't seem big to someone who came up on Vega 66 and HME receivers (me), it runs on DC (somewhat more than a 411 it is true) and is rack mountable. The price is enough lower than a 411 for me to consider it for a cart etc system. Does anyone have any experience with these? thanks Philip Perkins Phil, I used to have a R400 acting as a fifth wireless together with my UMC200D rack of 411 and 411a, I would say that the R400 or R400a perform like a 401 without a tracking front end like the 411a. There are also times where my R400 out perform the 411 in terms of range. Strange things like this happens. Although now I'm on a Venue in my rack, I still keep all my 411 and 411a, they still out perform the Venue when mounted in the UMC200D rack, with a sharkfin and dipole. Well the price of the Venue is too attractive. I still need my 411 and 411a for my bag rig. I too thought of having my cart mounted with R400a but thinking of RF and power distribution, I rather stick to the Venue. Here are my findings of these system with UM400 TX. Clear line of sight and RF space clear :- R400 - 400 meters with mini-circuit splitter 411a - 500 meters with UMC200D VRS - 400 meters with Venue system Remote area with RF congestion :- R400 - 200 meters with mini-circuit splitter 411a - 400 meters with UMC200D VRS - 200 meters with Venue system I always have a UFM50 with me, just in case i need to run a remote antenna to the set. Remote antenna save me alot when it comes to super tight hallway, walk and talk situation and also where sound cart is too tight to squeeze somewhere near the set. By the way the LM transmitter almost perform like the UM400 : ) All the best !! Alan Chong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks--great comparison. Good illustration also of Lectro's filtering in their rack as opposed to a mini-circuits splitter on its own--I'd say that was more a diff than that between R400a and 411 (I talked to some live-sound guys who had done some really wild things w/ R400a). Nice to hear about LM! I'd love to hear from people using VRT in the Venue as well--I think they might be closer to the 411 than a VRS. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Just to add to the discussion, has anyone had any experience with the Lectro Six Pack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Tom, yes, I have been using it for the last 50 days, it is superb. I'm running it with 4 UCR 411's as of now... 1. No battery problems at all, works all day - have never run out of juice even one day. 2. With the SNA dipoles, it's got superb range. The last feature I did (NOV - mid-JAN 08) was a strange one, for many reasons. I almost exclusively used the SIXPACK with the Cantar (with or without the Cantarem). Here's a picture... best -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 The six pack has the same filters as the Lectro rack unit, right? Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Graff Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I have found that the Lectro 16B multi-coupler combined w/ a 411 blows doors off the venue. In a non-A/B situation where I was at a location using the same blocks. Different freqs but clear none the less. The multi coupler definitely had better range by about 1/3 and my stress level was lower by about 90% which may be some sort of inverse ratio for you math wizes. The Venue is definitely convenient and small but there are other better, cheaper alternatives for cart work in my book. Scott Harber I have chosen to go this route and am very happy with both performance and flexibility. For me it was an easy choice as I already have the 411a receivers, but I like the flexibility of knowing I can throw any block receiver in there. I was just running some tests with Zaxcom receiver in UMC-16B and it worked great, too. Since Zaxes are in a different block for me than Lectro, it's nice to know that is an option as well, esp. for wireless boom. I guess this is OT for this post, since I have no experience with the R400. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I have chosen to go this route and am very happy with both performance and flexibility. For me it was an easy choice as I already have the 411a receivers, but I like the flexibility of knowing I can throw any block receiver in there. I was just running some tests with Zaxcom receiver in UMC-16B and it worked great, too. Since Zaxes are in a different block for me than Lectro, it's nice to know that is an option as well, esp. for wireless boom. I guess this is OT for this post, since I have no experience with the R400. Paul I'm used to being able to hook up any RX I want (any block) as well, and mix and match at will. I'm using a homemade wideband setup that's like a low-tech UMC, and that's probably what I'd continue with in adding a pair of R400as. Thanks for reminding me that the Venues are "block-bound". Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptalsky Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Philip, I have a couple of R400a's in block 25 I could lend you if you wanted to try them out - I haven't racked them yet, but you'll get the full effect. Email me off group if you're interested... (philREMOVETHIStalsky@yahoo.com) Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Good to know about the Six Pack. Thanks for the info Vin! I loved your Antenna Mast I used the VRM on a stage for 2.5 years on Block 27. We had 4 SMs running on Accupower 2900MAh rechargeable. I had 4 dipole antennae spread around a 50x70' stage in the middle. Never had a single hit,or drop out the whole time, and they worked a full time schedule. Don't know much about the R400a though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 With the launch of the VRM Wideband, I think its better to hold the R400a idea and invest in the wide band Venue. http://www.lectrosonics.com/PressReleases/vrwb/vrwb.htm Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Good to know about the Six Pack. Thanks for the info Vin! I loved your Antenna Mast Thanks Tom, Yes, that antenna rig is a makeshift one I had to rustle up together, but you know - it worked perfectly for me for 45 days of shoot. You won't believe the places I put up that rig... <I used the VRM on a stage for 2.5 years on Block 27. We had 4 SMs running on Accupower 2900MAh rechargeable. I had 4 dipole antennae spread around a 50x70' stage in the middle. Never had a single hit,or drop out the whole time, and they worked a full time schedule. Don't know much about the R400a though.> How much run time did you get off those 2900 batteries? best -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 With the launch of the VRM Wideband, I think its better to hold the R400a idea and invest in the wide band Venue. http://www.lectrosonics.com/PressReleases/vrwb/vrwb.htm Alan That's a great idea, but with any Venue system I can only use the RX in the Venue, can't bag them or split them up. I need to get a few more years out of some "legacy" systems that are in various blocks, so whatever I do has to be able to interface w/ them. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 That's a great idea, but with any Venue system I can only use the RX in the Venue, can't bag them or split them up. I need to get a few more years out of some "legacy" systems that are in various blocks, so whatever I do has to be able to interface w/ them. Philip Perkins Phil, Your "legacy system" are the 200 series?? If yes, you can get the Venue to run in 200 series mode on the cart and still have your 200 series receiver in the bag. Save the hassle of transferring receivers from cart to bag. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 How much run time did you get off those 2900 batteries? About 4.5 hours at first, and down to around 2 when they would wear out, about 6-8 months of non-stop use before replacement. I used the accupower 4 bank AA-D size charger. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Phil, Your "legacy system" are the 200 series?? If yes, you can get the Venue to run in 200 series mode on the cart and still have your 200 series receiver in the bag. Save the hassle of transferring receivers from cart to bag. Alan True--good idea. But I have RX in a couple of different blocks, and new stuff I want in a different block from those due to changes in the RF scene around here. A Venue is two continuous blocks, right? Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 You folks with the Lectro rack system--the one that is wide-band enough to accept RX in any block: if the rack is that wide band would the ceramic filters be helping at all? Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I spoke w/Lectro again today, and the initial info I got about the comparisons between their RX was wrong. The 401, R400a and the new SR (the 2 chan slot RX) as well as the VRMs are pretty much the same, the VRT is a little more hi tech in how it tracks TX and the 411 was called "the best receiver we make" and more selective than the rest. (I had been told that the 411 and the R400a were comparable RX.) Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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