coreyishere Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Hi, I am making a short film and it is filmed in a small room with carpet. I was wondering if the Sanken CS-3e is a good mic for this? I hear great things about this mic. I know this sounds crazy but I don't even have a sound guy. The film mostly takes place on a couch so I figure I could "prop" the boom stick up and position the mic evenly right between the 2 actors sitting on the couch. I guess I need a mic that has good "range" so to speak. As in one that picks up good audio when its not directly pointed towards the actors. I am leaning towards the Sanken CS-3e but still am confused. Any help guys? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 The Sanken would not be a good choice in this situation, its a very directional microphone, if you prop it up underneath and in between the actors you will always be off axis and will never capture head turns etc. Also booming underneath is not advised, one as it changes how the voice sounds. you have pointed out that the small room (which most likely is very reflective) has a carpet yet you are suggesting pointing it and a hard uncovered and reflective ceiling. Don't use the word reach, a microphone is not going to pluck sound out of the air from a mile away, if its not used properly and pointed at the actors chest above the actor and as close as possible but out of the frame (this is what your close up is for) then its going to sound crap. As a general rule don't use interference tube style microphones indoors. (As always it depends on the situation). I would suggest you hire a professional who knows what they are doing other wise you film will be crap. Regards Chris Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 "I know this sounds crazy but I don't even have a sound guy." Recipe for disaster. If not disaster, almost a guarantee that the sound part of your project will suffer. If the two people on the couch are just sitting there and not talking, it will be fine. If the sound is to be an important part of your project, hire a sound person. Even a "Subway" deal for someone with experience would be preferable to your present approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Really, how would you feel if a sound guy said that I'm making a short film but I don't have the budget for a camera operator and / or focus puller so I figure that I'll just lock off a camera on tripod. What would be the best camera for that- I hear that the Red is the best camera would that be ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thanks guys. I did not mean to insult anyone. I do not have any experience with sound so I am trying to learn. I watched a short film on youtube that used the zoom hn4 and he said he simply "placed the recorder" on the table between the two actors. The sound was pretty good. I figured if he could do this with the zoom hn4 maybe I could do it with another mic? Would the zoom hn4 be a better choice for me if I don't have a sound guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Actually I have a friend who could hold the boom pole. Would this make a big difference? He doesn't have the most steady hands I think but would the Sanken CS-3e be a good mic for indoor dialogue? I was going to do some "trial and error" and just figure out what sounds the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thanks guys. I did not mean to insult anyone. I do not have any experience with sound so I am trying to learn. I watched a short film on youtube that used the zoom hn4 and he said he simply "placed the recorder" on the table between the two actors. The sound was pretty good. I figured if he could do this with the zoom hn4 maybe I could do it with another mic? Would the zoom hn4 be a better choice for me if I don't have a sound guy? No to both counts, I don't want to write another essay about what is wrong with that last post. I guess it depends how good you want your film to be, if you want it to be bad use the zoom if you want it to be professional standard you need a boom operator and someone who knows what they are doing. The zoom between the two actors might sound good to you but it won't to the rest of us. This is a group of trained and working audio professionals from the likes of ENG documentary guys like me to the big timers like Jeff Wrexler and Oscars winners, you will not get anyone here suggesting anything other than professional standards. Sorry Regards Chris W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Haha we're being trolled lolz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thanks Chris. But this video uses the zoom h4n and doesn't it sound pretty good? This is a short film using the CS-3e below: I really want sound like the short film using the CS-3e. How hard is that to achieve? I know I must sound like an idiot asking these questions. I am sorry I do not know much about this. I think I can pull it off though with a lot of learning. But I respect your honesty and it is helping me. I want my sound to sound good. If I get my friend to operate the boom it could still sound good right if we use the Sanken CS-3e? Thanks so much for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Sanken 3S3e is a great mic, but it would not be my first choice for an indoor conversation on a couch. I'd go with something like the Sennheiser MKH50. The CS3e is more for outdoors and performs very well in noisy environments such as beaches and busy city locations due to it's excellent off axis rejection. Definitely have someone handle to boom rather than just stick it out of shot and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I figure Corey has made his decision to not use a sound guy due to inexperience or lack of funds. There's nothing wrong with being new or under-funded, as long as you are realistic with your expectations. If anything, good advice given here represents our community well and maybe some day in the future when Corey moves onto bigger projects, he'll be able to bring in appropriate sound assets then. In some respects, the Zoom is a better solution here than the CS-3e because 1) you don't have an experienced boom op, so no one will be able to make adjustments to what is otherwise known as a precision tool. 2) For an interior close shot, although the CS-3e performs better than some, there are other mics that are deemed more appropriate for such a setup, usually non-interference tube directional mics. 3) The Zoom and other handheld recorders often times use an X-Y pair of mic heads, so in this case, it would actually be possible to position the Zoom so that one capsule is aimed directly at the head of actor A and the other capsule is aimed at actor B. Generally speaking, the Zoom has moderately to severely noisy preamps (depending on your standards and how much you have to amplify) and in most cases, is the wrong tool for production sound, exactly because of the X-Y arrangement I mention above, but in this particular case, might be an exception to the rule. For sofas with a pair of actors, a boom op tracking both would probably be best. If you insisted on going with a static setup, with a pair of C-stands and boom assist holders, I'd arrange two hyper mics criss crossed in an X-Y'ish fashion (maybe not such a sever angle of incidence), not to capture any type of "stereo recording" but to place actor A on axis with mic #1 and actor B in the mic's null point and vice versa with mic #2. The mics should be riding very close to the top frame - up to a point. If your cutting the top of the head with the frame line, you don't have to push the mic distance more than a 6" or so from the actors head, getting too close can accentuate what would otherwise be subtle head movements and create an off-axis situation sooner than normal, but at 6" or so still sounds close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 You guys are providing me a wealth of information. I know I may not sound serious but I am. I am listening to the suggestions here and taking them in. I can spend up to $1500 on a mic for indoor dialogue. I guess I need to figure out which mic would be best for a small room like the one im filming in? I will get a sound guy as I see that is important. I am sure since I live in LA I can find someone that is willing to work for credits potentially if I search enough. Oh and realistically how hard is it to get the level of sound quality in the that 2nd youtube short film link I posted? If I could get that quality I would be very very happy. So I guess my question now is what mic should I even buy for these indoor dialogue scenes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 With $1500 you can have a brilliant sound mixer on location for 2 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Why would you spend $1500 on a mic and then not have anything to plug it into? You are looking to buy an expensive nail but not have a hammer to use with it. Regards Chris Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Why would you spend $1500 on a mic and then not have anything to plug it into? You are looking to buy an expensive nail but not have a hammer to use with it. Regards Chris Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2 I have a canon 7d. Please forgive me as I am a newbie. But is that what you were referring to? Or maybe a mixer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Why would you spend $1500 on a mic and then not have anything to plug it into? You are looking to buy an expensive nail but not have a hammer to use with it. Regards Chris Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2 I have a canon 7d. Please forgive me as I am a newbie. But is that what you were referring to? Or maybe a mixer? Unless you have a juice box or other equivalent DSLR attachments you will not have any XLR's into the 7D and with that you will not have 48v to power the microphone. Thats before we get into the discussion of preamps. A microphone of this quality needs to be plugged into a decent mixer with high quality preamps Regards Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Unless you have a juice box or other equivalent DSLR attachments you will not have any XLR's into the 7D and with that you will not have 48v to power the microphone. Thats before we get into the discussion of preamps. A microphone of this quality needs to be plugged into a decent mixer with high quality preamps Regards Chris See this is the stuff I really don't understand lol. So how much would this cost me? I have heard the Zoom H4n and it seems to produce good sound for dialog. Maybe I should just take this route? Does it produce good enough sound that it doesn't sound like bad sound? Im just thinking maybe using these high end mics is way over my head and budget. I can spend a total of $1500 on sound. The shoot is going to take about 15 days actually so paying a sound guy is out of the question with my budget. You guys have no idea how grateful I am for your help! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 "The shoot is going to take about 15 days actually so paying a sound guy is out of the question with my budget." Raise more money. If you shoot for 15 days and wind up with awful sound, you blew your whole budget. Trim your script, shoot for 7 days and not as a one man band. Or, shoot 7 days and produce such a good looking and sounding project that you can raise some money to do the next 7 or 8 days. No matter how much "help" you get here, shooting without a sound person with at least base level experience, it is not likely you will wind up with anything that is any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Thanks Jeff. Do you think I can find a decent sound guy that would work for $1500 total? Just curious if this approach is even realistic. Even if it took 14 days I wonder if I could find a guy for this price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Buying any proffesional mic like the CS3e without a mixer woud be like buying a lens without buying the camera body. For $1500 you are really looking at pro-sumer level gear. A Rode NTG-2 a Gitzo 3360 boom pole and a zoom recorder might be the way forward for you. It will give you better sound than you 7D can record. Unless you are looking for a career in sound there really is no point in buying pro gear- it is very expensive and a total waste of money if it is not your passion. Most people here have spent many many $1000s on their rigs. Once your productions are at level of needing proffesional sound then you'll just hire someone who has the gear and expertise to do the job. At least you are learning the importance of good sound now, so in the future you'll be one of those rare producers that actually cares about the sound crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Buying any proffesional mic like the CS3e without a mixer woud be like buying a lens without buying the camera body. For $1500 you are really looking at pro-sumer level gear. A Rode NTG-2 a Gitzo 3360 boom pole and a zoom recorder might be the way forward for you. It will give you better sound than you 7D can record. Unless you are looking for a career in sound there really is no point in buying pro gear- it is very expensive and a total waste of money if it is not your passion. Most people here have spent many many $1000s on their rigs. Once your productions are at level of needing proffesional sound then you'll just hire someone who has the gear and expertise to do the job. At least you are learning the importance of good sound now, so in the future you'll be one of those rare producers that actually cares about the sound crew. Thanks Martin. I actually oddly enough already have a Rode NTG-2 from about a year ago. It still works too. If I get the Zoom H4n and combine these 2 you are saying this will give me good sound? Does this combo work well? I want it to sound like a professional indie film. I know it's in the technique with the palcement of the pole too of course. But maybe I should just go this route? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Hey Martin check out this video using the NTG-2 and H4n. That sounds like movie quality doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Not that clown again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyishere Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Not that clown again what clown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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