Bash Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Hi Phil, could you let me know what is the 1U rackmount speaker affair that is in your cart please. I am interested!! sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Palmer Posted March 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Thanks Scott. Yes, that's it... ~pwp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 The Fostex RM-1 is about $100 cheaper, and doesn't have the AES/EBU digital inputs that the RM-2 has. I could see pros or cons going either way. I see that both are AC powered. Anybody ever open up one of the Fostex's to see if they could be rewired to work on 12VDC? --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I believe that the analogue only RM-1 is no longer a current product. Anyone know what the 12v DC mod entails? Regards to all, sb Trewaudio will modify it for DC power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I believe that the analogue only RM-1 is no longer a current product. Anyone know what the 12v DC mod entails? Regards to all, sb I only recall modifying one RM-1, which is the one I still use on my cart (the general layout can be seen in a 4-year old photo here: http://www.trewaudio.com/mixer/200301/jerseyalbum/jerseycart.htm). The RM-2 looks like it would work just as well. However, I'm wondering about the need to have digital inputs in a cart speaker. I believe these speakers were designed for machine room and control room use, and never intended for sound mixer's portable rigs. The digital converters may draw power wether they are used or not. Anyway, the DC mod for the RM-1 involves removing part of the original power supply and installing a 12VDC powered supply that creates plus and minus 15VDC, applying it to the rails at the right place. You have to also retain the portion of the internal supply that creates 5V for the logic switching circuit. The best thing about this Fostex speakers is that it takes up only 1 rack space in my enclosed cart. I use in mostly for when I want to take my headphones off and occasionally to playback takes for director and script. The input is the same as my headphones, so I can also hear the boom op's talkback mic if they are trying to reach me when my phones are off. It's position in my cart puts it at eye level (and also ear level). It works very well in this situation, but if I had a open type cart such as those based on the Magliner dolly I would prefer the Remote Audio Speak Easy. In addition to the Fostex's good points there are a few drawbacks: 1) it is power hungry (over 1 Amp at 12V). 2) There is no power switch on the front, so it always draws 1 Amp whether you need it or not. I recall there is no good place to install a power switch on the front. 3) The oblong speakers make good volume from a narrow chassis, as well as stereo, but would not be considered high fidelity (not nearly bright enough) and such a design must have a lot of phasing distortion. With these things in mind, and considering the effort and expense involved to make the RM-2 12V compatible, for a while now I have been sketching such a system to be built by Remote Audio. Ideas and opinions about features and layout are welcome. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Like you say--I don't think such a box needs a digital audio input, it should be 12VDC powerable out of the box (w/ as light a draw as possible, and with AC power via a wallwart etc), it should have a front mounted power switch since for most of us it would be off most of the time and so save DC; a couple of pairs of inputs, switchable and switchable to mono would be great, a headphone amp/jack. I think meters aren't really needed, maybe just signal present and overload LEDs. A full rack-width version like Fostex's would be cool but so would a half-rack single-speaker unit that would allow us to mount something else next to it... thanks for thinking about this Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Palmer Posted March 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I had trouble sourcing the RM-1, and believe it has been replaced by the RM-2. That's how I ended up with it. I use the analog inputs, so by switching to the digis...it mutes the speakers. Kind of handy. I use it for the same reasons as Glen, I like to give my ears a break but listen to the set. It works great for that. I have it plugged into the Furman power on the top, so it is only available to me when plugged into AC. Which is just about all the time these days. ~pwp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Anyway, the DC mod for the RM-1 involves removing part of the original power supply and installing a 12VDC powered supply that creates plus and minus 15VDC, applying it to the rails at the right place. You have to also retain the portion of the internal supply that creates 5V for the logic switching circuit. Glen Trew In an effort to keep everything "native DC" on my cart, I have been using a small (slightly smaller than 1 RU half-rack width) control amp/preamp from Cambridge Soundworks. It is the amp part of their portable system which I think is called the Model 12. By using just the control amp (and the small cube speakers) I have lost the use of this rather pricey ($499.) system but have gained the use on my cart of a very flexible unit. It has 3 inputs labeled CD, AUX 1, AUX 2, it has a Tape In and Tape Out source monitor, a headphone jack, mono program switch, amplified speaker terminals (left, right and subwoofer), a prominent power switch with green LED indicator) and it all 12 vdc with reasonable current consumption. I realize this is not a viable or affordable solution, to purchase a $500. system and then pull it apart, but I have been very pleased with the result. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 $349.00 at Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-SoundWorks-Twelve-Transportable-System/dp/B000068PKB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Good to know about amazon.com (often surprised at what they sell) but the $349.00 price I believe was for the one available USED unit. This could be a good way to get one cheaper since you probably would be tearing it up and just using the amp. I did put up the nicer image that amazon.com supplies (though I suspect this is an image of s new unit --- who knows). Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Jeff, Are you using the "sub-woofer"/amp too. I have the a.c sub-woofer/amp version on my cart -- inverter is powering it. I bought it over a dozen years ago - but I think it's still available for under $200. The system is nice for playing private tunes or Director playbacks etc. RL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Jeff, Are you using the "sub-woofer"/amp too. I have the a.c sub-woofer/amp version on my cart -- inverter is powering it. RL No, I am just using the all-in-one control amp that is DC (or AC with a wallwart). It does have a powered speaker terminal (just 1 - mono) where I have connected a suitable low freq. driver (passive speaker) but I don't typically have it all on the cart that way. The smaller satellite-type speakers (that make up a 3 piece system with a subwoofer) seem to provide decent listening without the sub. ...and you know how I feel about inverters; don't get me started Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Palmer Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Just an update on the cart performance. I spent a couple of days with it out at Disney Ranch. Lots of rough ground, moving all over the place. The low center of gravity was awesome. It was stable and didn't want to tip at all. I was VERY pleased at the rough ground transit of the new cart. ~pwp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stalder Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Philip, I have been watching the progress of your cart (as you would if you built them) its very impressive the way you have set up the chassis section. Its even more impressive to look at the finished pictures with the rack case loaded up. The same goes for Mr Lightstone's cart. Could I ask you how long the cart is and also what do you pay for that SKB case in US dollars. They are seriously expensive here, but I expect thats the freight. One more question - was the shock mounting worth it. No, I am not going to build one... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Rob, The SKB case I'm using is 24 inches deep - it's the largest of that series. Phil's is 20" deep. My SKB case itself measures 38" tall, 26.5" across and 36" deep with both doors on. Each door is 4" deep. The chassis section is built by Brett Grant-Grierson, who is also a sound mixer. So my cart's overall dimensions including the secondary case on top: 58" tall, 42" across and still 36" deep. When working I remove the 'back' door - so the depth is only 32". I purchased the SKB in 2006 and it was about $2100. The internal rack is suspended by 8 "shocks" - I first used the cart on a shoot in Morocco and it was wheeled up and down very bumpy dirt roads with no problems to all the internal equipment. It's had quite a few miles on it since then and I don't panic when the cart gets manhandled in the daily grind. Cheers, RL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Palmer Posted April 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 What I'm wondering and this could be answered by both of you, what do you do for the camera/insert car situation? Do you load your cart on the back, or do you disassemble the recorder and mixer from your main cart, or do you use another recorder and mixer altogether? Thanks in advance for your responses, I appreciate the replies. Rich Van Dyke Thanks for the props Rich. I have what I call the run rig. It's a 442, 744T, and 3 411a receivers, all in a Petrol bag. I just call it a different sound roll/DVD. I put it together last year because I hated having to rip the cart apart whenever we went in a car, top floor, bus, etc. I can have my UST set it all up ahead of time and there's no scramble. I have to say, ever since I built the new cart...all my back fatigue has gone away. Sitting low, with my feet on the ground has kept me from the sound mixer hunch. For the last 4 weeks I haven't had a sore back at the end of the day. It's a HUGE difference. ~pwp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 RVD, You could talk with Brett Grant-Grierson, who has now probably built dozens of variations - all using the magliner as a base from which to build from. Brett's email: bggrierson@earthlink.net. Cell: 818-606-5700. For my design I did a rough sketch and he came up with solutions based on his experience. He does excellant work and I found his build costs to be reasonable. Brett's own cart is a horizontal magliner (picture attached). You could try the magliner in it's standing position and the base for the SKB higher off the wheels. Maybe using that lower space for a rack for accessories, power etc. and a drawer? The plus side of the SKB style is that is is enclosed on at least 2 sides and easy to shut the doors and protect all the gear in transit. As beautiful as the Chinhda carts are, or variations on the open magliner - everything is totally exposed to all the elements. I have not yet put an insert car only set up together. A photo of my current mode is attached. Phil's setup is the kind of way I'd like to go. Regards, RL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Is it just me, or does it look like the cart is bending in the middle? Bouncing around a camera truck adds significant strain to a cart's frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Wide angle lens is my bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Wide angle lens is my bet. Yep. There's an arc in the garage door as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 $2100. Wow. I paid $375 for my 16RU Gator Shock Rack. http://www.gatorcases.com/productsmodeldetail.aspx?LID=1&PID=21&MID=293 It's 19" from the front rail to the inside of the back lid, 21 1/4" inside overall with both lids on. I did successfully mount my 01v96 in it, but it was a close fit. Cheers! Darren Rob, The SKB case I'm using is 24 inches deep - it's the largest of that series. Phil's is 20" deep. My SKB case itself measures 38" tall, 26.5" across and 36" deep with both doors on. Each door is 4" deep. The chassis section is built by Brett Grant-Grierson, who is also a sound mixer. So my cart's overall dimensions including the secondary case on top: 58" tall, 42" across and still 36" deep. When working I remove the 'back' door - so the depth is only 32". I purchased the SKB in 2006 and it was about $2100. Cheers, RL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Darren, You get what you pay for. For me $2100 is very cheap insurance when you amortize it over many years of use. I wanted a solid case that would travel worldwide and has a lifetime guarantee from SKB. Compare the construction of your Gator case vs SKB. RL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Hi Richard, I was a little confused because I missed the part in your post about that being a photo of -Brett's- cart, and not -your- cart. Because the rack pictured there looks pretty much the same as the one that I am using. That did cause me to question the value of the price differential between the two. I can definitely see in your comparison photos below that the SKB has much thicker walls than the Gator. What appealed to me about the Gator was its size and weight. It fits my cart perfectly and is very light. At the time I was building my cart, SKB did not seem to have anything of the dimensions that I was looking for. I have a LOT of SKB equipment cases, including some of their largest ROTO-X crates that I use for shipping my entire package in via air freight to anywhere in the world that I might need it. I have converted one of their medium sized ROTO-X crates into a "buddy cart" that travels with us on set. It makes a great auxiliary case as it is waterproof and lockable. Great for bad weather outside, and for walkaways in the stage. I think I have about 6 different sizes of SKB racks as well. I really like their stuff. While SKB cases, shipping crates, and racks will undoubtedly last a lifetime (mine), I have had numerous SKB hardware failures. However, they offer excellent customer support and free replacement parts have never been more than a phone call away. This is no different to the what I have experienced with my Pelican Products as well. All of that being said, the Gator case is fitting my soundcart needs perfectly. It is keeping the elements out and the gear in, and it is very light. The fact that it is lockable brings me piece of mind over lunch breaks and walkaways as well. I do not need the extra ruggedness and weight of the SKB as, when -shipping- my cart, it travels empty with all of the gear going into individual cases and then into the ROTO-X crates. Of course for day to day use, 99.99% of the time, the cart just travels in my truck and remains assembled. I have always known that SKB is of course priced higher than the Gator products. In this case, I was surprised by just how much the difference was! Best! Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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