Rick Hunter Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I saw this today, looking for images of my old but loved sennheiser, trying to identify the model number and came across this image. Just for the recorded it looks like a stick of dynamite. XLR on one end and 6ft+ thin cable on the other connected to the lav mic. If you know this mic let me know. http://www.leewhitephotography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/wireless_open1.jpg The author is claiming that the looping eliminates noise created from the cord when it moves. Just wondering if this is true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Again, very basic stuff learned from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Truthfully, that placement looks like a lot of contact noise from clothing before we even get to whether your preference is for loop-slack. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hunter Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Truthfully, that placement looks like a lot of contact noise from clothing before we even get to whether your preference is for loop-slack. . I was thinking that as well. I was taught to place on the sternum in the concave of the chest. We didn't have a female in the class but we instructed between breast were the best placement. Picture a bunch of guys with shirts off, placing lavs on each other. We must have been a sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Just photographer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hunter Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Oh I found the info in the battery compartment. It's a k3u Sennheiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I never loop lav cables. Tried very early on based on others' experience and advice, but found not only did it not help me, but when the loop eventually tightened and stressed the lav cable, seemed like a recipe for cable break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I never loop lav cables. Tried very early on based on others' experience and advice, but found not only did it not help me, but when the loop eventually tightened and stressed the lav cable, seemed like a recipe for cable break. +1 Keeping it simple and just taping the cable down securely kind of works the same way. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I don't loop. I seen to get good results, mostly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I don't loop either, but I do tack the cable down with a bit of slack as strain relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I don't loop either, but I do tack the cable down with a piece of transpore to prevent pulling the rig down. I found very early on that the loops required a lot more tape than simply tacking the cable down without a loop, did not help me achieve better sound, and sometimes tended to show through thin garments. I, like others, don't find the loop necessary. I also echo Steven's statement that the placement looks to be possibly problematic. However, whatever works in the field is the right way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 " I was taught to place on the sternum in the concave of the chest. " there is no one right place... it depends.... wiring the lav is one of the black arts of wireless (trial and error are typically involved) and it takes years of experience to get years of experience as for looping the cord: some do, some don't, but a taught lav cord can be problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniebeaudry Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 No loop for me. I tack down the cable too. As Mike says a cable that is taut with no slack can cause issues too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFsound Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 "it takes years of experience to get years of experience" So eloquently put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 No looping here either. Taping the cable a few centimeters below the mic has worked well for me. Except if it's a visible interview mic. A small loop through the clip looks tidier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 As I read the responses to the original question, it seems that the responses cover two different aspects of lav noise. My understanding of the purpose of the loop is to counteract the tendency to become "microphonic" that some of these lavalier cables have. Providing some slack and strain relief is a secondary benefit but breaking the sensitivity of the cable to amplifying movement is the primary benefit. I've only infrequently experienced microphonic tendencies with lavalier cables and I speculate that this is a problem that is related to capsule design and may have been ameliorated with more recent designs. So, to address the original query, I've not often incorporated a loop when rigging a mike on talent. It's rare that I"m given enough time to attend to such niceties and the mikes I've been using don't seem to need the extra attention. But, it's a technique that I might employ if I were working either with an older mike or in an environment (perhaps a radio station) where other conditions acting in concert tended to make the cable more sensitive. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 No looping here either. Taping the cable a few centimeters below the mic has worked well for me. Except if it's a visible interview mic. A small loop through the clip looks tidier. I've heard this referred to as "the newsman's loop" for at least 30-40 years! David Waelder commented: I've only infrequently experienced microphonic tendencies with lavalier cables and I speculate that this is a problem that is related to capsule design and may have been ameliorated with more recent designs. I have had it happen, but only when the talent managed to move the transmitter on me (like change it to another pocket), putting strain on the cable. Usually, my challenge is just trying to make both the mic and cable absolutely invisible, while not creating muffled response or clothing noise. I do try to make sure there is some slack in the cable just for those situations where the actor might turn around unexpectedly, and give him (or her) some leeway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 I've heard this referred to as "the newsman's loop" for at least 30-40 years! Is this the same as a broadcast loop? Sammy Huen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srgtfury Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Fury is a looper(y), if possible. Marc's admonishment, citing one example of cable strain, is cause to pause-loop or not, gotta be sure to expect the... We r all composites of our experiences, of course. Feature witnessing an awakened state, more or less every third night, save quality, REM snippets, for a year or two. It concurrently becomes fashionable to insert subclavian inserted Swan Ganz catheters in nearly all CCU patients, where there is no guidance, except end point monitoring of pressure and, then a confirmatory film (not the "black art," the Hon. Sen. Mike refers to, but an art, to be sure). All good-then the anti REM call-patient inadvertently pulled out the catheter's placement and we can't get a reading. That scenario begat various methods to bolster the catheter to whatever, but nothing like an additional loop or two, bolster sutured to the subject, to ensure uninterrupted snippets. So, visibility excepted and with professional quality recorders, what, please, are the intrinsic, acoustic pitfalls and the likely frequency to a looped, vs. unlooped securitization (suturing to the subject, precluded)? Thank you very much Fury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Karlsson Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Fury is a looper(y), if possible. Marc's admonishment, citing one example of cable strain, is cause to pause-loop or not, gotta be sure to expect the... We r all composites of our experiences, of course. Feature witnessing an awakened state, more or less every third night, save quality, REM snippets, for a year or two. It concurrently becomes fashionable to insert subclavian inserted Swan Ganz catheters in nearly all CCU patients, where there is no guidance, except end point monitoring of pressure and, then a confirmatory film (not the "black art," the Hon. Sen. Mike refers to, but an art, to be sure). All good-then the anti REM call-patient inadvertently pulled out the catheter's placement and we can't get a reading. That scenario begat various methods to bolster the catheter to whatever, but nothing like an additional loop or two, bolster sutured to the subject, to ensure uninterrupted snippets. So, visibility excepted and with professional quality recorders, what, please, are the intrinsic, acoustic pitfalls and the likely frequency to a looped, vs. unlooped securitization (suturing to the subject, precluded)? Thank you very much Fury Wtf you are talking about??? Anyway, looping was something I tried when I started out, just like others mentioned above, because someone advised to do so, but it did not seem to work for me at all, if anything it just seemed to make things worse (more fiddling / time consuming) and sounded no better. I am all for keeping it simple. I do loop when using a clip, but that's just for making it look neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 -con safos- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate C Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 it's a technique that I might employ if I were working either with an older mike or in an environment (perhaps a radio station) where other conditions acting in concert tended to make the cable more sensitive. Funny you should mention this David. I was shooting at a radio station the other day and having some noise issues with one of the subjects mics. Tried the old loop trick and it worked wonders. I haven't used this method in years, but hey if it helps go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 I was shooting at a radio station the other day and having some noise issues with one of the subjects mics. Tried the old loop trick and it worked wonders. Thanks for the confirmation, Nate. I don't have the technical savvy to know exactly what causes the microphonic behavior of a lav mike cable but it made sense to me that conditions that stress the system might reveal vulnerabilities. I've worked on films set in working radio stations and I recall needing to take precautions to keep my signal path clean. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannyluv Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 The only philosophy I try to rigidly stick to is to not be to stuck on one philosophy. Being open minded and flexible in wiring situations is how I try to deal with clothing noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustinguished Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Sometimes I'll loop a B6 cable and the mic In a moleskin sandwich for strain relief. That way there's some give if it gets pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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