Tom HaisteadStockwell Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Hello everyone, I was hoping you could do me a big favour... For my final year project at university I made a series of promotional videos using both Digital SLR's and HDV camcorders. In my report I need some secondary research... That's where you guys come in. Basically all I need you to do is watch this video which shows the Canon 7D and the XHA1 in a series of test shots. Then pick which camera you felt performed best overall and why. You'd be helping me out a lot and if there's anything I can do to return a favour I will! Thanks! Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Tom, do you want performance overall, performance on each test or both? P.S. Sure you want your other YouTube video on this gear to be up while you're carrying out this survey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom HaisteadStockwell Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Sorry I will edit that now, Overall please. Well it's all about personal opinion really and how they feel they performed, I trust people to be able to think for themselves. Thanks by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Based on the test, the DSLR for overall picture quality. The audio on the DSLR was ok but too far from the subject. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 " Then pick which camera you felt performed best overall and why. " you want us to judge your archery skill by comparing your arrows ?? (and as seen on youtube!) I believe there are way to many variable factors involved (including the apples/oranges aspects) for any kind of a fair comparison. either camcorder is capable of turning out excellent work, or CRAP. sorry, I'm not going to play, but I'll pop some corn and watch... and people keep saying I sound like a broken record... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 ... and people keep saying I sound like a broken record... Yes, you do. The repeated requests for the same information come from different people. It seems most of them learn over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom HaisteadStockwell Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I am fully aware of that thanks, but keeping the video short and sweet plus being able to discuss all variables is near impossible as there is just too much to discuss (which is what my ten thousand word report is for). So all I need is a sentance or two for a bit of secondary research about the variables I am able to talk about briefly. Let me put it this way then: If you had to buy a camera, would you sacrifice audio quality and getting major shutter role to have a camera with poor depth of field and grainy low light shooting? Because that is essentially what I am asking here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Let me put it this way then: If you had to buy a camera, would you sacrifice audio quality and getting major shutter role to have a camera with poor depth of field and grainy low light shooting? Because that is essentially what I am asking here. Stating the obvious, it seems many people have done just that and are quite pleased with the results. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) " would you sacrifice audio quality " of course not (as audio is my profession) but I would not use either camera ( = image device!) for recording the audio. there are different ways to utilize the camcorders in question (and you do not even include gay camcorders!) to optimize the visual results... sorry, especially as personal and subjective as it is does not seem to me to be a fair comparison Edited March 27, 2013 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Hi Tom, I think that you raise a good question because I think that a lot of people, when they are starting out, have to make this kind of decision. If I had the choice between these two setups, and could not use ancillary gear, I'd go with the camcorder. I think that a DSLR only works in a highly controlled shooting environment, with things like outboard sound recorders not to mention gear to help with focus, etc, and that a camcorder is more versatile and significantly easier to work with. I say that as someone whose visual preferences push me very hard in the direction of DSLRs, but given a bald choice, I don't think that the potential that a DSLR can offer is worth the tradeoffs. I also think that it's great that your final year assignment involved having to film with these two rigs, and compare them. You no doubt learned a good deal, and hard choices like this help teach discipline. Cheers, and congratulations on being almost finished uni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom HaisteadStockwell Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Great justified answer. Thank you very much Stewart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Tom, If you want a great lesson in living with the gear that you've got, which maybe was part of, or implicit in, what was going on with the project that your tutor and you worked out, here's a suggestion: Watch the Eric Rohmer film Pauline at the Beach (Pauline à la plage). Then read the chapter in Nestor Almendros's book Man with a Camera, which should be available in your university's library, or through intra-library loan, about how the film was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 ...(and you do not even include gay camcorders!) I've missed the threads on these, and must say, feel sorry for it. Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Basically all I need you to do is watch this video which shows the Canon 7D and the XHA1 in a series of test shots. Then pick which camera you felt performed best overall and why. I don't think a group of sound experts is necessarily the best group to judge the quality of different cameras in a test. I suspect you'd be better off asking on the DVInfo.Net Forum or perhaps the DVXUser Forum. My opinion is that a full-featured camcorder is a better choice for documentaries or reality shoots if you don't have the luxury of a separate audio recorder (which I believe is very important to have); I think the Canons can do a great job for picture under certain circumstances, but leave a lot to be desired with sound. I have been involved with projects where I had to match Red One, Sony EX3's, and Canon 7D's within the same shot, which was a bit of a nightmare. If it had all been perfectly exposed, there wouldn't have been too many problems, but this was shot under difficult circumstances. Nowadays, many cable shows routinely shoot on full-size Sony or Panasonic HD cameras and then throw in GoPros or other tiny toy cameras, and it's not possible to match them all in terms of color, brightness, and detail. You can get close enough for jazz, but it's a compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 there are different ways to utilize the camcorders in question (and you do not even include gay camcorders!) to optimize the cisual results... HUH? Don't talk like that, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom HaisteadStockwell Posted March 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 I don't think a group of sound experts is necessarily the best group to judge the quality of different cameras in a test. Perhaps, however it is in a group entitled "Cameras... love them, hate them". This is not the only forum I've posted on, in fact I tried registering and posting a thread on the forums you mentioned before I came here. The problem is that you need 'karma points' and such to build up the trust of the other users to show you're responsible enough to post threads yourself. I have a month to write this report so I don't have the time to be doing that. But I remembered how helpful all you guys were when I previously posted on here so I thought I'd give it a shot. Cheers for the response Marc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Well, I did give you an answer above, based on my experience with about three dozen different cameras at Technicolor as a staff colorist for 25 years. The 7D and 5D are toys, in my opinion, but they can make acceptable pictures assuming there's an extremely good DP at the helm (like Shane Hurlbutt with Act of Valor). I have always, always felt that the cinematographer -- not the camera -- makes the biggest single difference in picture quality. Not the camcorder, not the pickup, not the money spent, not anything. Give Roger Deakins a $399 GoPro, he'll probably make far more impressive pictures than I could with a $75,000 Sony F65. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Give Roger Deakins a $399 GoPro, he'll probably make far more impressive pictures than I could with a $75,000 Sony F65. And he will still get over looked for an Oscar :-P Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 " Give Roger Deakins a $399 GoPro, he'll probably make far more impressive pictures than I could with a $75,000 Sony F65. " can I change <tiger> to <roger> ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 " Give Roger Deakins a $399 GoPro, he'll probably make far more impressive pictures than I could with a $75,000 Sony F65. " can I change <tiger> to <roger> ?? " Give Roger Deakins a $399 GoPro, he'll probably make far more impressive pictures than I could with a $75,000 Sony F65. " can I change <tiger> to <roger> ?? The difference is that Marc is original, astute and funny, and knows that there is a difference between a clever one-off line and tiresome repetition accompanied by a view of the English language that is literal to the point that pedantic, as a characterization, is an extreme understatement. And he doesn't target flippant remarks, as you do, at individual participants in this forum. Plus he's right about Roger Deakins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Meanwhile, if more people have time to provide their views on the video that Tom posted, he'd no doubt appreciate it. If you only have time for the sound tests, they are in the last minute or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 And he will still get over looked for an Oscar. I know! Nominated 10 times for an Oscar, last time I checked. Deakins does great work, but it's clear that timing and politics are almost as important as talent with some awards. Note that the Senator is correct here, particularly in that two different people can get brilliant work and crap work out of the exact same camera. Back at Technicolor, I can remember two specific projects I did simultaneously where one of them looked incredibly great every day, and the other one looked like it was underwater (and it was shot on land) -- same type of camera, similar lenses, exact same film stock. The first was shot by a guy who knew what he was doing, and the second was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottcbell Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 DSLR... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Back in the XL1 days, I was a Die-Hard Canon fan. Looking at the tests, I felt the resolution on the DSLR was too sharp, and made me like the XAH1 more, but still wasn't "impressed" with it. Audio on the Canon line has always been sub-standard (lack of XLR inputs on the XL1 e.g.) IMlimitedHO, and the audio on the test was not controlled enough to give a decent sample... it all suffered from poor mic placement. So I must say that, when the balloon goes up, I'll be looking for a different camera. Thanks for posting, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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