rb1138 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 I don't see the point of running two top fans inline. Unless they were very precisely speed matched, it'd probably cause more problems. The Sonosax method didn't already run a fan above the other fan? Guess I must've missed something. Know very little about the camera. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 The Sonosax method didn't already run a fan above the other fan? Guess I must've missed something. Know very little about the camera. Sawrab Red epic originally had just the front fan. Sonosax designed a fan to mount on top to help the single front fan. New upgrade kit replaces front fan with a larger version (deeper), and adds dual top fans (side by side). Adding the Sonosax top fan to THATwould probably make little difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Red epic originally had just the front fan. Sonosax designed a fan to mount on top to help the single front fan. New upgrade kit replaces front fan with a larger version (deeper), and adds dual top fans (side by side). Adding the Sonosax top fan to THATwould probably make little difference... Ah I see. Well apparently this new RED fan system is coming out end of May, so we'll see if it actually works. Seems weird to me that they didn't just come up with "more fans equals fans working less hard" in the first place. But I dunno. These things, and the ramping thing mentioned above...they seem more like they're for RED covering their asses over the negative publicity they've gotten for the hair dryer going off when it wasn't wanted. Rarely do producers/directors hear what we hear with the subtle RED noise during shooting. But everyone remembers when the hair dryer goes off at that one important moment. Traumatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 I may be able to help with that, and some of the post friends I have on here may be getting an email from me if things progress as I hope. More on that later. I wandered into the Redlands (heh) in the south hall at NAB and got a chance to talk with the engineer that actually worked on developing the new fan add-on kit. Here is the short version: Fan kit replaces front fan with new deeper version, should be moderately quieter. New top kit fits under existing angled grille (I think it was the original grille) but he did mention some Tactical plate that would need a redesign. I'm not fully up on their parts, so this part is a little fuzzy for me. They are looking to possibly make the top fan a little thinner in design, such that the top grille won't need to stick up as much, but it only sticks up about 3/8" from the body as it is right now. Perhaps the future design will enable the existing accessories to remain, or maybe an intermediate sandwich plate can be used (my thought just now, not suggested to them) New programming options are also coming - now a specific temperature can be chosen and the camera will maintain this temp, as well as a couple other choices to keep it quieter and steady-state. Their tests (unofficial and possibly done from the wrong position) had volume at about 35dB, but I suggested that they measure from approximate positions of a boom and lav, directly in front of the camera and at varying distances. The front fan is the source of all our problems. He had set a camera up in his office at 100fps, 5k, and 10:1 compression and ran it for hours at (iirc) 35%, and it never forced its way to leafblower mode. If nothing else, this could be promising. There is a possibility that I might be able to provide some opinions to them, the engineer was going to talk with his corporate types when he got back and see if they might be interested in some consulting from the sound world. It does amaze me that it seems like they hadn't done this in the past... And I wonder why not if they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 " we feel we have no choice under the circs. " like I tell students... you get to make choices, and deal with the results... " Know very little about the camera. " but you are going to buy one.... here, have another cup of Kool-Aide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 "Know very little about the camera. " but you are going to buy one.... here, have another cup of Kool-Aide What? Not now. Not taking that plunge till I definitely know more. Keep your Kool-Aid to yourself. There is a possibility that I might be able to provide some opinions to them, the engineer was going to talk with his corporate types when he got back and see if they might be interested in some consulting from the sound world. It does amaze me that it seems like they hadn't done this in the past... And I wonder why not if they haven't. Why do I feel a lack of surprise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
api Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I really am quite optimistic about this fan upgrade. The often overlooked issue with running the fan at 25% and waiting for it to kick in at 100% is that the noise on the CMOS sensor increases significantly as it heats up. This is especially evident when shooting in low light. Therefore, you only have two choices on long takes: either you increase the noise in your image or you increase the noise in your audio. If indeed after the fan upgrade the camera can run at 35% fan speed all the time without ever reaching overheat treshold, I think it's a huge improvement over the current situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Hello, The FanPlate is a big 60x25mm fan that increase the natural air flow of the camera. Looking at the new front fan RED designed I think it will be better heat and noise emprovement. But the two little top fans that are built in the heat sink don't get me excited at all. Not only because I'm the "promoter" of the FanPlate... but because two fans of 2,5cm can't be efficient and even hinder the natural airflow of the camera. In normal heat situation (25c) I usually shoot 25-35 in rec mode and 45% in standby mode wich is ok for the crew and myself standing next to the camera. For reheasal it's possible to assign a "rehearsal" mode to the Epic user keys so that the sound crew can have real shooting conditions. - Bigger fan means more air flow, less RPM, less noise. No rocket science... Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Are these of interest? http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97198-Epic-Fan-Speed-Sound-Algorithms And here; http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc-fan-2-upgrade-kit-top-bottom Kindest, sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 But the two little top fans that are built in the heat sink don't get me excited at all. Not only because I'm the "promoter" of the FanPlate... but because two fans of 2,5cm can't be efficient and even hinder the natural airflow of the camera. Brilliant. Looks like we'll have to hold our breath on this new brilliant invention by RED co. The REDusers already praise it. Damn them and their kool-aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Of course the Red USERS think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread... They are all already deaf from the leafblower mode right next to their head! Now if an actual SOUND MIXER is excited about this, in an environment other than the noise (75-83dB) that I measured on the NAB show floor right there in RED's booth... Then call me. As of right now, I'm with you Sawrab: They are chugging the kool-aid again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Of course the Red USERS think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread... They are all already deaf from the leafblower mode right next to their head! Now if an actual SOUND MIXER is excited about this, in an environment other than the noise (75-83dB) that I measured on the NAB show floor right there in RED's booth... Then call me. As of right now, I'm with you Sawrab: They are chugging the kool-aid again. In the low budget realm, I seem to be stuck with REDs all the time. Just watched a final version of a recent film I did. Can hear that fan pumping in and out. Problem is those blank stares when I say the fan is making noise "What? No it gets dead quiet when we start rolling". Comparatively, it's quieter so it goes past regular peoples' ears. A marketing trick designed by RED to make it seem like the camera is dead quiet. Like when you increase contrast in a camera to make the picture look "better" when it really looks terrible. So much deja vu though. Same conversations. Over and over. Till the end of time...? The least RED can do is reduce how many of these conversations I have to deal with. I haven't even been doing this that long.... I wonder how many everyone else has had. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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