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Thank god for TC, but why does Red keep inventing new timecode standards?


boodschap
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So today I had a shoot with 3 Red Epics and I took my lemo 5 TC cable and BNC-lemo 5. But then there was the horror: TC on the Epic body without breakout, seems to be lemo 4 :- . Aside from Red pissing me off all day, I don't want this to happen again. So I'm trying to find out to make a cable like Devendra did in this thread: 

But I can't seem to find the schematics for some connectors.

I found this: http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/xl-lb2-wiring/ and http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/time-code/xl-lx-wiring/

but I can't seem to find the schematics for lemo 4, XLR and different jack-connectors.

 

Any ideas? Did I forgot a common connector?

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So today I had a shoot with 3 Red Epics and I took my lemo 5 TC cable and BNC-lemo 5. But then there was the horror: TC on the Epic body without breakout, seems to be lemo 4 :- . Aside from Red pissing me off all day, I don't want this to happen again. So I'm trying to find out to make a cable like Devendra did in this thread:

But I can't seem to find the schematics for some connectors.

I found this: http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/xl-lb2-wiring/ and http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/time-code/xl-lx-wiring/

but I can't seem to find the schematics for lemo 4, XLR and different jack-connectors.

Any ideas? Did I forgot a common connector?

Its your responsibility to provide timecode, not every connector for every camera, my suggestion is to make sure you communicate this with production prior to shooting and specify what they need to provide.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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Just buy one from RED--wiring the dinky 4 pin LEMO is a pain.

 

The guys from Wilcox Sound near Burbank do a great job at making precise cables made expressly for the Red Epic. I've never had a problem with mine, and it's much less costly than what Red sells.

 

I agree, it's frustrating that they went from the standard 5-pin Lemo on the Red One to the kind of weird combo timecode/sync cable on the Red Epic & Scarlet. Here's the pinouts from the manual:

 

RedEpicTimecodein_zpse7ca3629.png

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Basically Red don't give a s**t about sound. For years 4 pin Lemo has been the DC 12 volt industry standard on a lot of equipment and T/C has been on 5 pin but these people just carry on and do their own thing and bollocks to everyone else. A few years ago Arri in their infinite wisdom put XLR 3's on their 24volt batteries. When I questioned this I was told by Arri that it was cheaper than putting a Fischer socket on the battery. This  meant the power lead would have been male to female Fischer and consequently more expensive as well.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s.

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Thanks for the answers.

It's not because it's my responsibility, that I can't be frustrated about the wide difference of connectors. SMPTE is a standard, so why aren't the connectors...

Next time I have a job on a 'new' camera, I just call straight to the renting company, production couldn't provide me this information.

Fortunately one of the camera's had the I/O breakout, so I could get away with the 5 pin lemo.

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The guys from Wilcox Sound near Burbank do a great job at making precise cables made expressly for the Red Epic. I've never had a problem with mine, and it's much less costly than what Red sells.

 

I agree, it's frustrating that they went from the standard 5-pin Lemo on the Red One to the kind of weird combo timecode/sync cable on the Red Epic & Scarlet. Here's the pinouts from the manual:

 

RedEpicTimecodein_zpse7ca3629.png

 

Thank you Marc!

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  • 8 months later...

I was on a job the last couple days with a red epic and the day before I had made up a bnc to 4-pin lemo cable especially for sending timecode to this camera. So I proudly present my cable on the first day only to find out that the red epic input is not a 4-pin lemo but a mini 4-pin lemo! Needless to say I was gutted. Watch out for this when making your own red timecode cables!

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As others have mentioned, it is 100% the responsibility of the camera department and/or production to make sure their camera has the necessary breakout cables to allow proper audio, timecode, or any other connectors to interface with the rest of production.

Production Sound Mixing for Television, Film, and Commercials.

www.matthewfreed.com

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"Thank god for TC..."

actually, thank SMPTE.

 

" SMPTE is a standard, so why aren't the connectors... "

to allow for different hardware interfaces at the discretion of the equipment makers based on whatever they choose to base it on...

deal with it.

best way, I think: have Camera provide interfaces to common industry standards, not proprietary manufacturers' standards...

Edited by studiomprd
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I was on a job the last couple days with a red epic and the day before I had made up a bnc to 4-pin lemo cable especially for sending timecode to this camera. So I proudly present my cable on the first day only to find out that the red epic input is not a 4-pin lemo but a mini 4-pin lemo! Needless to say I was gutted. Watch out for this when making your own red timecode cables!

Lemo has different series, there is no mini or standard. The epic uses a 00 series lemo conector, like the FGG.00.304.CLAD

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As others have mentioned, it is 100% the responsibility of the camera department and/or production to make sure their camera has the necessary breakout cables to allow proper audio, timecode, or any other connectors to interface with the rest of production.

Production Sound Mixing for Television, Film, and Commercials.

www.matthewfreed.com

But camera department and/or production are likely to blame sound mixer for not proper audio to video sync. So we have to confirm that the right cables are there prior to production. They will not ask us anything before the shoot so we have to be proactive in this matter.

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" They will not ask us anything before the shoot "

you don't get to work with professionals much, eh ??

that's what preproduction planning is for,

and preproduction meetings, and preproduction workflow tests ...

Everybody's in a rush all the time in the advertising business. They hire me because i m prepared and i don t bug them with questions i do my technical prep by calling camera asistants and the post peploe directly. No matter how not professionnal you think they are they pay me nicely and my days are usually short. And that s what important for me the rest i can handle.

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I have to admit, I basically bought the entire TC cable range from Remote Audio. I like to be prepared, and that for me also means having the relevant cables with me. To be honest, there aren't that many, and they aren't that expensive (although pricey).

While I also try to talk to anyone of relevance prior to a shoot, on the one-day jobs they just barely know which camera they'll have, let alone which accesories. And more than once I was told one camera, but they showed up with a different one. Imagine the look on their faces when I still had the right cable with me.

Of course I could say not my problem, and that might be right. But who cares? I'm saying it is my problem and it is making me look good. What's wrong with that?

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  • 6 months later...

Basically Red don't give a s**t about sound. For years 4 pin Lemo has been the DC 12 volt industry standard on a lot of equipment and T/C has been on 5 pin but these people just carry on and do their own thing and bollocks to everyone else. A few years ago Arri in their infinite wisdom put XLR 3's on their 24volt batteries. When I questioned this I was told by Arri that it was cheaper than putting a Fischer socket on the battery. This  meant the power lead would have been male to female Fischer and consequently more expensive as well.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s.

Have you encountered RED's 5 pin XLR wiring yet?  it's hilarious!

 

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+1 for Wilcox Sound making these. Ive seen them in action and this sort of thing should be in everybody's kit.

I called Wilcox today and they told me that their Epic cable (4 pin Lemo) is TC only--one connector.  I need TC and sync--do they make another cable that that guy doesn't know about, or did I not describe it right or what?  TC only to a RED camera does not sync with sound make.  (Needs Trilevel too.)

 

phil p

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