Scratch track for the Alexa

[tomhartgeorge]

Hi Guys,

I have been filming with the Alexa and using a double system of recording on my 788 and sending a stereo hop with my zaxcom, however I'm considering simplifying by sending a mono guide track with a G3 rather than the bulkier zaxcom. Has anyone got a good system for this?

many thanks

 

[afewmoreyears]

How about even better..... eliminate the feed all together.....  on almost EVERY shoot I work on, we treat it like a film camera, jam the TC and use a TC slate.... done.... we almost NEVER feed that camera... LOVE it...

[Eric Toline]

How about even better..... eliminate the feed all together.....  on almost EVERY shoot I work on, we treat it like a film camera, jam the TC and use a TC slate.... done.... we almost NEVER feed that camera... LOVE it...

You are indeed fortunate. Every Alexa, RED, DSLR and any other camera shoot I've done in the past years have expected and insisted on a feed to the camera. OTOH some have even insisted on camera only audio. 

 

To the OP:

 

A G3 will work just fine with the Alexa. It's going to be a mono feed of course but should not be a problem considering it's for a scratch/guide track.

 

Eric

[TC Sound]

That makes dailies tough to sort out. If you routed a G3 (or even a comtek, as I sometimes do) to an output on the 788 (I usually do tracks L+R together). A benefit in my eyes to using a comtek is that if forces the post team to sync up with the 788 recording to get full fidelity. Since it's just a guide track, the dialog has to be easy to hear, but not top notch. Any director or editor with worthwhile experience is going to be able to ignore a higher noise floor when listening to dailies, just as they can look past a low resolution on the video. Keep jamming is you have been or start if you haven't, it's just one more level of redundancy guaranteeing that the editors won't screw anything up.

[Philip Perkins]

A G2 to the Alexa worked fine for me, once I made up the appropriate cables.  Some interview type jobs want a full-fi wired feed. which is OK, but if we're moving around a lot the choices on offer don't include a beta-snake type setup.  Usually the addition of a G2 to the camera (which prob already has a Lockit) isn't a deal for the camera-ites, but the add of a full-fi 2 chan wirelessRX might be, esp if you are also asking for power for the RX.

 

philp

[studiomprd]

" sending a stereo two channel hop with my zaxcom, however I'm considering simplifying by sending a mono single channel guide track with a G3 rather than the bulkier zaxcom. Has anyone got a good system for this? "

of course...

you need a Sennheiser G3 system .  put the output  you want to send into the TX, and hook the output of the matching RX into the camcorder.   you could use a G2 system, or most any other wireless mic kit.

there are many specific variations, as there are a lot of possibilities. (commonly discussed here, BTW)

[Marc Wielage]

How about even better..... eliminate the feed all together.....  on almost EVERY shoot I work on, we treat it like a film camera, jam the TC and use a TC slate.... done.... we almost NEVER feed that camera... LOVE it...

 

It's easier on the sound and camera crew, but just makes life worse for the post crew. Speaking on behalf of the latter, trust me, a scratch track is always appreciated. If it's too much trouble or is not in the budget, I get why it's not always possible to use. 

 

Whenever possible, though, I do provide a scratch track but emphasize to the post crew that I don't recommend they use it for anything except reference. 

[mikewest]

It is a requirement here in NZ to always feed an Alexa

 

I do it by cable so the result is a usable backup

 

I coud do a 2 track feed using my Zaxcoms but maybe for more difficult locations

 

mike

[macruth]

It's easier on the sound and camera crew, but just makes life worse for the post crew. Speaking on behalf of the latter, trust me, a scratch track is always appreciated. If it's too much trouble or is not in the budget, I get why it's not always possible to use. 

 

Whenever possible, though, I do provide a scratch track but emphasize to the post crew that I don't recommend they use it for anything except reference. 

 

We've run into trouble on a few occasions where Picture Editorial used the camera scratch track exclusively under the guise of "we don't have the manpower, budget, time... to sync slates", thus passing on in essence a "full re-conform" to post sound who come on late in the game and didn't have any input into the workflow,

This also in effect "blew the agreed upon Post-Sound budget" and was usually described as "a problem with the Location Sound that had to be "fixed" by Post-Sound", of course with corresponding lingering effects in the perception department,

Never had any such problems when the actual multi-track location files were synced to slates at the very first step and the resulting materials passed through the workflow as many high-quality contemporary workflows dictate,

In fact I see a growing acceptance of an entire "on-set digital lab" 1st step preceding Picture Editorial, consisting of Copy and QC of all original recorded materials, syncing originally recorded sound and picture to slates, some preliminary color correction or application of LUTS, and dailies preparation,

As Marc noted, Camera scratch track should always be provided with the emphatic caveat that it should only be used "as a reference", in fact, on my shows, I tend to describe it as a glorified sync-reference only,

[Malcolm Davies Amps CAS]

You are indeed fortunate. Every Alexa, RED, DSLR and any other camera shoot I've done in the past years have expected and insisted on a feed to the camera. OTOH some have even insisted on camera only audio. 

Thats interesting Eric!

I've done about 10 feature films with the Alexa and I have never sent audio to the camera.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s.

[Jon Gilbert]

I've not done as much with the Alexa as you Malcolm, but I've also never been asked for audio to be sent. It does help that the timecode is absolutely rock solid on the Alexa, I just jam when we break and it's all been good.

[Chris Woodcock]

I think puraleyes is the main culprit these days for asking for camera scratch tracks especially at the lower end of the scale

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Jan McL]

Have never been asked to send audio to camera on any Alexa shoot. Have sent audio to video assist on Alexa projects though.

[soundslikejustin]

Mixed bag here: Have sent Audio+TC, just Audio, just TC, and sometimes nothing. Used either a G3 or R1a for audio, periodic jamming or continuous feed for TC (lots of off speed stuff on that job) - employed either a Ambient lockit or ERXTCD, the latter having the benefit of audio AND TC.

[ChrisH]

I never send audio to Alexa. It has a great clock and great audio recording but what's the point we have time code and slates and editors. I never send audio to camera in the work I do, I treat it like film.

[Brett Sorensen]

I've never had an issue using a comtek, and as mentioned before - it's comforting knowing it will stay a scratch track. Just make sure you talk to the camera crew before hand on whether their pig tails are male or female (I've seen both), if you don't travel with the appropriate turn-arounds.

[studiomprd]

" emphasize to the post crew that I don't recommend they use it for anything except reference.  "

well as long as you do that...

and they all nod in agreement... 

[Marc Wielage]

We've run into trouble on a few occasions where Picture Editorial used the camera scratch track exclusively under the guise of "we don't have the manpower, budget, time... to sync slates", thus passing on in essence a "full re-conform" to post sound who come on late in the game and didn't have any input into the workflow,

 

Not my problem. I can only tell them to be sure to sync everything up, emphasize the need for reel numbers, and the need to import all the tracks into the picture edit regardless of how many tracks are actually used, so that the OMF's are correct.

 

I still run into cases where re-conforms are necessary due to garbled reel numbers, tracks deleted or moved, or other issues. This is compounded by the tendency to use "Toy Cameras" that have no timecode (Canon 7D, etc.). This doesn't take the enormous amount of work it used to be, and there are now tools that make the re-conforming process much easier than it used to be. I'm just finishing up supervising an indie feature mix where the dialogue editor spent about 4 days re-conforming 5 reels, so it wasn't the end of the world in terms of time & money.

[Nate C]

I am going to go against the grain here and say I am happy to send sound to the Alexa and I am happy for them to use it as there primary audio if desired. I am confident in my equipment, the camera and that I have set every thing up correctly. Double system, single system, it's all the same to me. It is a better camera sound wise than many cameras used in the single system world. Yes I hit record on my machine and hand over the files and reports at the end of the day. What they decide to do in post is their choice.

[berniebeaudry]

I am going to go against the grain here and say I am happy to send sound to the Alexa and I am happy for them to use it as there primary audio if desired. I am confident in my equipment, the camera and that I have set every thing up correctly. Double system, single system, it's all the same to me. It is a better camera sound wise than many cameras used in the single system world. Yes I hit record on my machine and hand over the files and reports at the end of the day. What they decide to do in post is their choice.

I recently did my first Alexa shoot and I cabled to the camera and rolled a back up on my Nomad. The return audio was a little weak (don't have my return cable set up yet so I could only adjust at the camera). We did check playback and I was impressed at how good the camera sounded.

[tomhartgeorge]

Many thanks for all opinions here, I ended up using just a lockit box as the camera was on the operators shoulder for most of the day. The only problem came when the director took me aside to do an audio only interview with one of the band members we were filming. The over zealous op then left to film b-roll while I was doing it, leaving these shots without sound much to my annoyance.

I think they were so used to shooting with c-300/f800's that they assumed there was a top mic. Trying to explain why a line only input can't have a top mic to a producer was a bit frustrating. Although I thank Arri as it means they have to have a mixer employed to use the camera.

cheers guys

[studiomprd]

" I am happy to send sound to the Alexa and I am happy for them to use it as there primary audio if desired. "

I agree with Nate C

[DeafDave]

The sennheiser g3 receiver is a mic level out so how are you able to get the Alexa line level only input in and up to a audible level?

I know you are turn the reciever's output up to +12 but then are you having to turn up the Alexa inputs to max too?

[studiomprd]

" The sennheiser g3 receiver is a mic level out "

er...

RTFM

[Jaymz]

The sennheiser g3 receiver is a mic level out so how are you able to get the Alexa line level only input in and up to a audible level?

I know you are turn the reciever's output up to +12 but then are you having to turn up the Alexa inputs to max too?

 

I recall it being fine last time I did it with a G3 to an Alexa.

 

Lots of debate as to whether the output of a G3 is "supposed" to be mic or line. Nobody seems to now what the "unity" setting is (where the receiver is neither boosting nor reducing the output). Larry from Lectro was kind enough to mention that on a 411a, unity is +4 in the output menu.