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Hourly Rate for an M&E


mbois

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Hello there, I currently work a full time job creating 5 M&E tracks a week. (1 a day) for a Soap Opera. I am assuming that what i earn is not much and i rather not say. Yet i do wonder how much everyone else earns because when I leave i want to let them know an estimate of what others earn in this side of post. Ambient, Footsteps, hard effects, foley, etc and final mix are all elements that take time and effort. I will say that my starting hourly rate is the the highest they stop paying the person before me after 3 years of being employed. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

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If I went by what a producer paid the last guy, I would be working for 50$ a day.

 

+1 to that.

 

There's usually much more money in their budget than they are letting on. You have to say NO to low pay 'opportunities' before they'll even consider paying you what you're worth, and the first amount you agree to is the highest amount they will ever pay you most of the time. There are exceptions, but not many. Best of luck.

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It's interesting that the O.P. doesn't use their full real name or wish to state how much they're being paid but still requests full candor from others: "I won't show you mine if you'll show me yours."

Each time I've accepted way less than I've deserved, there has been some eventual indication to me that the money was indeed there (crew members ordering fresh squeezed juices and espressos from a full catered bar that were delivered to stage and billed to client), or absolute incompetency was wasting money somewhere (producer who was in the early stages of an eventual addictive collapse).

It becomes easier and easier to be confident in what I bring because I trust myself. The OP may choose this job to start trusting themself, even if it involves the embarassment of being told that they're charging too little.

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" Is it a Union gig?

What is not much?

Is it their studio or yours.

What's your experience level. "

if your studio,  how well equipped ??

Exactly.

So many things to take in account.

It's the old question.

How long is a piece of string.

OP needs to give more info.

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The IATSE Low-Budget Agreement (which is not exactly the same as television rates) is at this link:

 

http://www.iatse411.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IATSE-Low-Budget-Agreement-2010-2013.pdf

 

There, you can find what the weekly minimum union rates are for sound editors, which is about $2100 for a 48-hour week. If the show is for the web or a small cable channel, for a a non-union production company, then it could be considerably lower. Experienced people working on big shows at bigger companies would most likely get more. Your rate winds up being whatever you can successfully negotiate.

 

I think the key is to establish guidelines at the beginning of the project for hourly rate, number of hours expected, overtime pay, payment due date, and specifics on what they expect you to do vs. what you can't (or won't) do. I have seen cases with small companies like this where things went awry because of Unrealistic Expectations, non-specified benefits (time off, sick leave, etc.), meal breaks, travel expenses, and stuff like that.

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I currently pay my editors  $375-$450 day  ( as a freelance contractor ) for basic m/e stems and they have the freedom to work at my facility or at their own studio. If they choose to work in their own space, I will help them to aquire compatible software, equipment etc to ensure a suitable environment for the workflow required. I work primarily in documentary and factual television so the foley requirement is less severe than dramatic or feature film.

BTW.. I keep reading comments about  producers seemingly trying to shortchange crew. I can speak from experience that in factual television in particular, budgets are getting smaller and smaller and that in order to maintain high quality, some flexibilty has to be maintained by all. It is not necessarily out of greed, but out of economic reality in most cases.

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" work a full time job "

define, please...

as an employee..? 

with benefits ??

of a company..?? established ??

 

more info about the show and its production ...??

 

" Sorry, What is M & E? "

that tells me a lot...

Does it tell you that I only do on set production sound?

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Each time I've accepted way less than I've deserved, there has been some eventual indication to me that the money was indeed there

I'm currently working on a show that stated they really couldn't afford an extra $50/day for me.

As it falls within a 10hr day, I agreed to pick up/return a crew rental vehicle. Even though I could catch a bus to the depot I'm getting taxis, the cost? $45 each way. I figure if you're not going to pay my full rate, I'll travel in style.. 

And yes, I use public transport a lot as it's easier/cheaper then parking in the city.

 

Grant.

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I'm currently working on a show that stated they really couldn't afford an extra $50/day for me.

As it falls within a 10hr day, I agreed to pick up/return a crew rental vehicle. Even though I could catch a bus to the depot I'm getting taxis, the cost? $45 each way. I figure if you're not going to pay my full rate, I'll travel in style..

And yes, I use public transport a lot as it's easier/cheaper then parking in the city.

Grant.

Nice, each small victory counts.

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@ccalandro

Agreed

 

@Toy Robot 

Agreed As well

 

" Is it a Union gig?
What is not much?
Is it their studio or yours.
What's your experience level.
"

if your studio,  how well equipped ??

 

Pro tools 9

HD MADI

HD i/O

Media composer/ satellite

2-Genelec 8020B Monitors

focusrite

Tektronix WFM4000

Artist Control

 

 

 

@ John B

 

 

When i signed onto this forum i didnt realized every one went by their real name (maybe not every one). I haven't given it much importance but out of respect to this awesome forum i will create a new account soon with my real name.

 

I didn't state what im making because i had rather get realistic feed back first and not out of the bat be told... "thats low"

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You get paid what the local market dictates.

Is it a Union gig?

What is not much?

Is it their studio or yours.

What's your experience level.

Lots of variables. Be more specific.

If its $15 an hour, then I would say that's low.

 

Its not union, this is a foreign network that launched a studio here 30 years ago. I work in their studio on pro tools 9. My experience level has to do with why i took this job. I get paid 14.50 (that is low) i initially requested 25 per hour and i wanted to work with them as a freelancer. They sold me on that they provide a good insurance, dental bla bla which they do. 5 paid personal days. 5 paid sick days. 2 weeks paid vacation. Lastly i can come in whenever i want. 

 

My backstory pretty much is that i have worked as production sound mixer in 2 features and lots of corporate sit down interviews.

 

I sort of stubbled into this job during 3 dry months when i needed to make ends meet and a friend that works there told me they needed a pro tools operator. I thought  sure why not. I thought it would be composed of cleaning VO. During the interview I felt confident and I didnt realize how much time it would take to make 1 episode. I also had only touched pro tools for two weeks before hand years ago when pro tools 6 had just come out. 

 

I nevertheless decided i would go for it. After learning pro tools on my own and having played other people m&es, i trained my ear to what their expectations were. At the beginning I took 1 week to do 1 episode, then 4 days etc. in the meantime an independent contractor stayed up to date with the episode at $150 per episode according to my boss.

 

I enjoy post greatly but the pay is bull. I stil take sometimes 9 hours. Sometimes there is over time and some times my boss says "not this week". I believe i have come to a good place with my skills after a year being there. Quality control tells me its the best he has heard. The draw back is that they arent well equipped mostly when it comes to soundproofing. I have made lemonade out of lemons. which is why i am asking this question in the forum because in order to grow and not sell my self short and our services, I need to stand up.

 

Currently i have 1.5 years of experience of post production sound - m&e creation. I feel that post production earnings unlike production sound shouldn't be determined by region since a studio can be anywhere and a file sent from anywhere. It should be based in quality. Is that an unrealistic expectation?

 

@Marc, thanks for that link!

 

 

 

 

I currently pay my editors  $375-$450 day  ( as a freelance contractor ) for basic m/e stems and they have the freedom to work at my facility or at their own studio. If they choose to work in their own space, I will help them to aquire compatible software, equipment etc to ensure a suitable environment for the workflow required. I work primarily in documentary and factual television so the foley requirement is less severe than dramatic or feature film.

BTW.. I keep reading comments about  producers seemingly trying to shortchange crew. I can speak from experience that in factual television in particular, budgets are getting smaller and smaller and that in order to maintain high quality, some flexibilty has to be maintained by all. It is not necessarily out of greed, but out of economic reality in most cases.

 

 

Dean,

 

I think the day rate you pay is more then decent. how can i apply? :)

 

 

 

I'm currently working on a show that stated they really couldn't afford an extra $50/day for me.

As it falls within a 10hr day, I agreed to pick up/return a crew rental vehicle. Even though I could catch a bus to the depot I'm getting taxis, the cost? $45 each way. I figure if you're not going to pay my full rate, I'll travel in style.. 

And yes, I use public transport a lot as it's easier/cheaper then parking in the city.

 

Grant.

 

 

I hear you.

 

In general thanks to everyone that replied. If there is anything you can add as advice, again i would appreciate it. 

 

Thanks, M

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Thanks, M, for the clarification.

If your quality is some of the best, then you might be in a position to ask for more money. Of course, that's based on them being able to understand that paying more up front saves them in the long run with less redos and a better quality product.

One of the keys to getting paid more is to make yourself indispensable, or at least, to give them a better product with less hassle and energy needed to be spent on their part.

The other key is to have the confidence to go for it. Naturally, you've got to factor in the nice benefit package.

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If you're just starting off, plus you're using their equipment and facility, I think $1000 a week wouldn't be completely unreasonable for a very low-end show, especially if they're throwing in some benefits. I would build in a raise/review after 90 days and say, "hey, I've proven my worth, I'm faster and more experienced now, so I deserve X dollars." You never know until you ask. But $600/week is really, really low... though if you can parlay this into another job (soon), maybe it's good experience in the long haul. 

 

I agree with Dean above that $400/day is not bad as a minimum if you own the room yourself, at least as a rock-bottom rate. I've seen people work for less in LA on tiny indie features. No doubt, the work is clearly worth double that or more, especially depending on how thoroughly-equipped your room is, particularly your sound effects library, available plug-ins, outboard gear, and so on. But I've seen some mid-sized studios in town these days willing to do final mixes for $1000 a day, especially for ultra-low budget projects. These are tough times for facilities. (There are parallels in the world of color correction, whose rates have also dropped similarly.)

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 in factual television in particular, budgets are getting smaller and smaller and that in order to maintain high quality, some flexibilty has to be maintained by all. It is not necessarily out of greed, but out of economic reality in most cases.

 

It's not out of greed for us poor schlumps below the line.

 

It's about greed up at the top, where somebody has decided they've got to produce x hours of y format for z budget... or a network has decided they'll pay only so many dollars but have to have a certain kind of programming because it gets better ratings / revenues... or an employee has decided they'll save that money to impress their boss and get a raise. 

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" It is not necessarily out of greed, "

somebody wants more for less...

 

 

" production sound mixer in 2 features "

actually featured, anywhere ?  or just feature length??  sorry that doesn't really tell us much of anything.

 

" During the interview I felt confident and I didnt realize how much time it would take to make 1 episode. I also had only touched pro tools for two weeks before hand years ago when pro tools 6 had just come out. "

in other words, not much experience...

"an independent contractor stayed up to date with the episode at $150 per episode " your market, your competition... and her/his experience ? (2 features ??)

 

" Is that an unrealistic expectation? "

realistically, yes, somewhat.

 

" Does it tell you that I only do on set production sound? "

Of course I might be wrong, but I sort of expect the experienced pro's to know a bit about the post process...

 

" Also, a good healthcare and dental plan shouldn't be disregarded.
That can be an additional $500 a mn out of pocket.
"

a major ;point!

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" production sound mixer in 2 features "

actually featured, anywhere ?  or just feature length??  sorry that doesn't really tell us much of anything.

 

" During the interview I felt confident and I didnt realize how much time it would take to make 1 episode. I also had only touched pro tools for two weeks before hand years ago when pro tools 6 had just come out. "

in other words, not much experience...

"an independent contractor stayed up to date with the episode at $150 per episode " your market, your competition... and her/his experience ? (2 features ??)

 

" Is that an unrealistic expectation? "

realistically, yes, somewhat.

 

" Does it tell you that I only do on set production sound? "

Of course I might be wrong, but I sort of expect the experienced pro's to know a bit about the post process...

 

2 feature length, independent C movies if there is such a thing as "c." 1 of them airing in a comcast channel. The other one sold to japan, you get the picture.

 

Yes i did state that i wasn't very experienced in post. And in production sound I am in the process of building a decent ENG+recorder bag. So you also get the picture. :)

 

Apparently the IC that does it for $150 does 10 a day, so they claim, i heard his work and he tends to use the same ambient for all INT DAY scenes/settings  and the same crikets AC for the all the INT/NIGHT and he just wont do it any other way. That is all I know about the IC.

 

 

 

Mbois, you need to ask yourself, if I quit, whe will I work?

You want to find another job first, before quitting.

Also, a good healthcare and dental plan shouldn't be disregarded.

That can be an additional $500 a mn out of pocket.

yea very true it is why im still working there.

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