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Should I buy the gear to learn?


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Hello all. It's been a while since I last got on this forum. I am halfway on one of Jay Rose book but I felt that even though I read it, I'm not understanding it.

 

Maybe it's like working a camera where you have to use it to understand it better. So I'm wondering if I should just start buying gear, learn as I go WHILE reading Jay Rose's book.

 

And should I buy the lower end and upgrade as I go or should I try for something mid range or higher so I don't waste money buying twice. Also for some perspective, I'm working minimum wage job at the moment :(

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Ah, chicken or egg?

 

Only you can decide.

 

Putting yourself out there for jobs (and by 'jobs' I mean probably freebie/low-pay) and getting to meet / know people who do what you want to do will help shape your decision making in a more realistic way. You'll also get to know your local market and what kinds of work are likely to come through. Hanging out at purveyor's shops also helps. My first "sound gig" was at a big rental house, checking gear in and out, including troubleshooting and repair. That was for sure a way to get to know a bit about gear.

 

Good luck.

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If I can check in on this...

 

1)  Justin's idea to rent, rather than buy, is a good one. Pay for a day or two. Your rental house might even give you a special rate if you're willing to book tentatively on an off day, with the provision that they can bump you to another day if there's a full-pay customer. Don't buy anything until you're comfortable with what the options are and specs mean.

 

2)  The only things I think necessary to rent, to understand my book, are mics and a recorder... assuming you've already got good speakers on your CD player or elsewhere or very good headphones . The mics should be good ones, name-brand supercardioid or gun on a boom plus a lav. This would be the stuff the rental house keeps for real productions. The recorder, however, just needs to be capable of taking a mic input... a SD or Zax would be nice, but a Tascam is just as good for these purposes. Even a Zoom pocket recorder (with a transformer box or preamp for XLR mics).

 

3) If you don't have good speakers or headphones, buy some. That's worth spending money on now. They don't wear out or get obsolete, so you'll use them your whole career. And they'll improve your music listening and DVD/TV watching as well.

 

4) What parts aren't you understanding? I'd be glad to help by explaining things differently here, and probably other really knowledgeable people on this board will also chime in. It'll help me as well, letting me know what could use a re-write when the publisher eventually asks for a new edition.

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If you've never worked in this industry before then you may want to hold off on buying anything. No sense buying all the gear only to find out you hate working 12+ hour days (most likely 14-16hr+ days on newbie type gigs), you can't deal with the politics, you're sick of the crappy food, and it's not as glamorous as you thought it would be. 

 

Try to find someone that you can boom op for (most likely another newbie mixer) so that you can get your feet wet on their dime. 

 

I borrowed all my gear when I started out then made friends with a local shop and began renting. After I knew this was something I was going to pursue I dropped some cash and bought better gear. 

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3) If you don't have good speakers or headphones, buy some. That's worth spending money on now. They don't wear out or get obsolete, so you'll use them your whole career. And they'll improve your music listening and DVD/TV watching as well.

 

4) What parts aren't you understanding? I'd be glad to help by explaining things differently here, and probably other really knowledgeable people on this board will also chime in. It'll help me as well, letting me know what could use a re-write when the publisher eventually asks for a new edition.

 

Your book is good and full of great information. I just felt like since I'm not applying the information, I'm not learning it as fast.

If you've never worked in this industry before then you may want to hold off on buying anything. No sense buying all the gear only to find out you hate working 12+ hour days (most likely 14-16hr+ days on newbie type gigs), you can't deal with the politics, you're sick of the crappy food, and it's not as glamorous as you thought it would be. 

 

Try to find someone that you can boom op for (most likely another newbie mixer) so that you can get your feet wet on their dime. 

 

I borrowed all my gear when I started out then made friends with a local shop and began renting. After I knew this was something I was going to pursue I dropped some cash and bought better gear. 

I know that working in the film industry is what I want to do, there is no turning back for me. I tried booming before when I was a P.A on an indie feature, however, my arm started shaking after a while and my hands are making noise on the boompole. Then the mixer got annoyed and start booming it himself again. So, should I at least get a boompole so I can get some practice booming? and then maybe I can try to find some mixers around my area to boom for.

 

Why not get a job in a hire company that way you get to learn about the equipment and you will also make some money while you are learning.

Best John

Well, it's a small market out here in Houston Texas. From what I heard, we only have about 5 mixers out here. I tried asking Texcam for a position but they don't have any available. Also, I don't believe they have sound gear.

 

Ah, chicken or egg?

 

Only you can decide.

 

Putting yourself out there for jobs (and by 'jobs' I mean probably freebie/low-pay) and getting to meet / know people who do what you want to do will help shape your decision making in a more realistic way. You'll also get to know your local market and what kinds of work are likely to come through. Hanging out at purveyor's shops also helps. My first "sound gig" was at a big rental house, checking gear in and out, including troubleshooting and repair. That was for sure a way to get to know a bit about gear.

 

Good luck.

It' weird, you have to have experience to get in the business, but you can't get in the business if you don't have experience. That's the reason why I want to buy gear so I can get that experience and not annoy the sheet out of the mixers I'm interning with stupid questions. I'm contacting indie filmmakers in Houston to be a P.A. I don't think there are any rental house in Houston with sound gear.

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" I know that working in the film industry is what I want to do, there is no turning back for me. I tried booming before when I was a P.A on an indie feature, however, my arm started shaking after a while and my hands are making noise on the boompole. Then the mixer got annoyed and start booming it himself again. "

thus a quandary:  you may, at this point, think you want to do production sound, but you may find out you really don't like doing production sound, or you are not good at it...

 there is a lot of good advice, and yes, some of it is conflicting... so you need to make your own decision if you buy, what you buy, and when you buy... even with "book learning" you still don't know what gigs you will be able to get , and despite what some may say, how much $$ you will be able to deserve and command. 

another thing: don't expect Jay's excellent books to teach you how to operate specific equipment, there are manuals (and web sites) for specific gear, and yes, it is important to start getting ears-on experience.

 

" It' weird, you have to have experience to get in the business, but you can't get in the business if you don't have experience. "

it is not weird, and this is not the only business with this situation...

but you do need to start towards the bottom, and as you gain experience and expertise, you move up

 

" should I at least get a boompole so I can get some practice booming? "

maybe...

but keep in mind, that without experience, you are going to have to decide which boom to get: brand, size, etc.

and while standing around holding a pole can help condition you, and practicing with a flashlight for a mic can be beneficial,  that is but the tip of the boom operator iceberg...

 

So rental of gear, (start basic) and jr. positions are really good options.

also, used gear,  and making friends with folks at our usual suspects (via their toll free lines!) are also possibilities

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this may not apply to you and your situation, but the way I started out was working for camera people / production companies using their gear. they need someone to work their gear and you need the experience. it's mutually beneficial.

if you'd rather take the indie film route, maybe buying a zoom and boom is the way to go - that way you can work on the freebie/low budget projects and meet those people.

I'd also try to get on jobs as a PA. might not be what you want to do, but it will get you in the door and meet people. I did my share of Starbucks runs in the early days.

if you have the time one day, maybe you can come by our set? I'm shooting until the end of may right near your school.

brian

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All depends on the market you are in.  I'm in El Paso, TX.  Not too many Sound Mixers here.  The few that are here all use their own equipment on gigs.  Had to rent for first few gigs until I had enough to make the investment on my first audio bag configuration.  Even today, I'm still upgrading it.

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another thing: don't expect Jay's ... books to teach you how to operate specific equipment

 

True that. I state in the preface and throughout the books that they're not about specific gear, but about the principles that let you get the best out of any gear. I didn't want to write something that would be obsolete in six months, and I didn't want to write promos for Zaxcom or SD - as good as those companies are - or for ProTools.

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" they're not about specific gear, but about the principles that let you get the best out of any gear. "

ince upon a time...

at movie schools, we had toteach classes how to use the not-so-intuitive NAGRA recorders, as they were about the only way to record sound for a movie...and there was no "quick-start" guide for it available...

no longer necessary, as there are recorder alternatives from $5 to $20k that can do the job, and of course just about any PC (Mac/Windows/Linux)...

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The best way to understand specific applications like production sound would be to really learn about audio, signal flow, acoustics, and all the stuff engineers learn. Once you know that you can apply it to almost any audio related task. Just remember that this is a highly technical field and if all you know how to do is turn the knobs and push the buttons but you don't have an understanding of what you are doing at a scientific level you probably won't be able to keep up with others.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello everyone, thank you for your great answers. I have decided that... I'm gonna do all of the above. I will put myself out there to help on productions in the summer. And I will definitely spend most of my free times perusing over all the technical aspects sounds.

 

At the moment I will buy peripherals such as boom poles and a headphone. A member on this site has offer to let me shadow them and I just want to learn some skills such as booming so I'm not useless on sets.

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Sounds like you have a viable plan, Victor. Good.

 

One thing I did (before I ever bought a pole) was to hold a broom stick up as if booming, with the mic end between the tops of books and the bottom of the shelf above whilst watching television.

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It's a great idea to practice booming. Try to get on a professional set and watch an experienced boom op work. It's more about technique than strength. If someone is shooting a day exterior near you, just be an observer. But don't learn bad habits!!

Once you feel that you could give it a try, volunteer to boom for another mixer on super low budget stuff that wouldn't ordinarily not have a boom op, tragically so.

That's probably what I'd do.

Although it has been done, you can't expect to be a good mixer without having seen how it's done by a professional. Even if you operate the gear properly, there are many other aspects to getting rehired.

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