Jack Norflus Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 Zaxcom is now officially beta testing new versions of the TRX900LA and TRX900LT transmitters featuring NeverClip. Stay tuned for the offical announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 great. any official, or unofficial announcement about it being an upgrade to existing transmitters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 It is a new hardware design with dual a-d converters. Current models can not support NeverClip. :-( Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted May 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 Its new hardware so there is unfortunally no upgrade available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 ok. i expected that there would be new hardware upgrade to accommodate the new A-D converter, but i was hoping that it would just be a board replacement to upgrade my transmitters to neverclip. oh well. and thanks for the official and unofficial answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 It is a new hardware design with dual a-d converters. Current models can not support NeverClip. :-( Glenn That's really ashame that there is no hardware upgrade for those that just bought new LA's. I would at least hope that Zaxcom could do some type of discounted hardware board replacement for a fee just like Lectro did with their SRa's to SRb's. I would definitely pay for that upgrade but I definitely don't want to buy a whole Tx's after I just bought new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 Any official price changes with this new TRX? Are non-NeverClip Tx's being discontinued then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 Not to be a downer, but Glenn or Jack, why do we need Neverclip in our transmitters? A DPA Lav has a dynamic range of 97dB, a Cos-11 has 101dB. The existing Zaxcom TRX900LA has 106dB. We can't transmit over 0dBFS anyway, so unless the on-board recording now features attenuation, all Neverclip is in TX's is a soft-knee compressor...just turn the transmitter gain down (via Zaxnet!!) Does it use more power and therefore give less battery life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 neverclip lets the soft knee compressor work with usable audio, rather than overmodulated audio. which means you still set your tx gain to give you good level at your receiver, and if talent decides to up their level by 15dB, your signal at the receiver will ony be compressed, not clipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted May 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 Non neverclip TX are not being discontinued they will still be available. I can't speak for pricing. But my understanding is the neverclip version will be very comparable in price to the current non neverclip price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 No wonder Rado wants to sell his old units... CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 I would think that NeverClip is actually quite usefull on a tx. If I remember NeverClip correctly there is no compression, but attenuation which is a big difference. This happens after the converter has a/d'd the full dynamic range of the program. So attenuating at the tx and gaining again at the receiver happens all in the digital domain and should not degrade the signal. Simply turning the gain down is of no help, as you're usually late. That's kind of the whole point with NeverClip. However, I've read in a different thread that NeverClip is implemented quite differently in the plug-on tx so it may be similar to the LA's NeverClip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 However, I've read in a different thread that NeverClip is implemented quite differently in the plug-on tx so it may be similar to the LA's NeverClip Yes, it's a compressor, as you can't transmit over 0dBFS. Rich's answer was helpful. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 If it really is a compressor than it's not NeverClip. The way Rich did describe it, it sounded like any other system, which almost always use a compressor of some sort. What's the advantage then of NeverClip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 Yes, it's a compressor, as you can't transmit over 0dBFS. Rich's answer was helpful. Thanks. Don't know what one has got to do with the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 Not to be a downer, but Glenn or Jack, why do we need Neverclip in our transmitters? A DPA Lav has a dynamic range of 97dB, a Cos-11 has 101dB. The existing Zaxcom TRX900LA has 106dB. We can't transmit over 0dBFS anyway, so unless the on-board recording now features attenuation, all Neverclip is in TX's is a soft-knee compressor...just turn the transmitter gain down (via Zaxnet!!) Does it use more power and therefore give less battery life? Interesting. Why is Neverclip in a tx necessary or how does it even help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 it seems that there is no compressor acting before the preamp, so neverclip gives you more headroom on the a-d to allow the compressor that is after the a-d to work to keep you levels below 0dB for the rf stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 it seems that there is no compressor acting before the preamp, so neverclip gives you more headroom on the a-d to allow the compressor that is after the a-d to work to keep you levels below 0dB for the rf stage. So instead of an input limiter pre A-D, we get an output limiter, basically. In answer to Constantin: Nomads Neverclip allows signals beyond the 0dBFS defined by the outputs into the internal mixer, which must be somehow attenuated to be output or recorded without distortion. Same for the TX Neverclip, except there's no user intervention - any signal that is over the 0dBFS that the RF stage can handle is going to be compressed, otherwise you'll be transmitting distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 If it really is a compressor than it's not NeverClip. The way Rich did describe it, it sounded like any other system, which almost always use a compressor of some sort. What's the advantage then of NeverClip? It is Neverclip because Zaxcom can call anything they like Neverclip, as they came up with what defines it. Yes, it uses a compressor/limiter like any other system. It's digitally based though, unlike most input limiters so it will be smoother, but essentially the same as an output limiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 Its not a compressor, not by the definition of what a compressor is. Here is Glenn explaining it and the best way I understand it. Using DSP it removes the noise from the digital conversion to give you more headroom. The full talk starts at 30 minutes 44.26 is how neverclip achieves the extra range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 Its not a compressor, not by the definition of what a compressor is. Here is Glenn explaining it and the best way I understand it. Using DSP it removes the noise from the digital conversion to give you more headroom. The full talk starts at 30 minutes 44.26 is how neverclip achieves the extra range It does not use DSP to remove noise. The level allowed into Nomad from the NeverClip input is higher than can be recorded under 0dBFS, so the entire signal is gained DOWN, which crushes noise out of the 4 LSB (least significant bits) of a 24bit wave file and replaces them with audio. This also enables the signal that was going to be over 0dBFS to now fit. That is how the Neverclip iso works, but that is not the same as the Neverclip in the TX's which IS a compressor. Same name for three separate processes, I can see how it is confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 It does not use DSP to remove noise. 41.20 it says DSP on the nomad to reconstruct the audio from the dual A-D Didn't know the trx uses a different system so yes it is getting confusing Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 41.20 it says DSP on the nomad to reconstruct the audio from the dual A-D Didn't know the trx uses a different system so yes it is getting confusing Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2 Yes, that is the combining of the two digital signals from the dual A-D to create a single audio stream. At any one point in time, one A-D will be at a higher level than the other, and one may be clipping. The DSP picks the best stream and seamlessly moves between them. That's a bit simplified but I hope it makes sense. There is no noise reduction in NeverClip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pscottm Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 hmm thinking about canceling my current order for an LA. how soon is 'stay tuned'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 thinking about canceling my current order for an LA? how soon is 'stay tuned'? See when the Maxx was announced and work forward from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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