old school Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 ChineseScissorhands I love this handle/icon/name.... Glad your timing worked out. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Yes, 4 channels of AES for 4 bodypacks and up to 4 more analog channels (normally only 1 or none for most circumstances). I will definitely go all aes with neverclip transmitters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseScissorhands Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 ChineseScissorhands I love this handle/icon/name.... Glad your timing worked out. CrewC e...thanks,Crew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vale Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Any news for the LA trxs with neverclip release date? i will start a new project very soon and i'd like to buy a couple of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Any news for the LA trxs with neverclip release date? i will start a new project very soon and i'd like to buy a couple of there. You can get them now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 What's the model designation of the version with never clip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 perhaps...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 I believe it is the TRX900LANC. I am currently using 2 along side with 2 normal LA's and they sound very nice to me. Very natural sounding when people get loud in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted May 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 What's the model designation of the version with never clip? Same as before but add "NC" to the end. So all version of the TRX-LA and TRX-LT can be ordered with never clip. The TRX-742 alreday has Never Clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Mitchell Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 These are out in the wild now? Awesome! I'll call my Trew tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 It is a new hardware design with dual a-d converters. Current models can not support NeverClip. :-( Glenn Its new hardware so there is unfortunally no upgrade available. ok. i expected that there would be new hardware upgrade to accommodate the new A-D converter, but i was hoping that it would just be a board replacement to upgrade my transmitters to neverclip. oh well. and thanks for the official and unofficial answers. I'm disappointed that non-NeverClip TRX-900LA transmitters can't be upgraded. At one point it seemed like it was theoretically possible via a software update: Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vale Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 i'm ready to make my order, i'd just like to know if these first releases of the neverclip equipped LAs are already fully tested or still beta versions ... then, should it be possible to deactivate neverclip function in the transmitters if that will create any unpredicted problem and use them as a 'normal' LAs? thanks, v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 I'm disappointed that non-NeverClip TRX-900LA transmitters can't be upgraded. At one point it seemed like it was theoretically possible via a software update: Mark O. It's hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 " if these first releases of the neverclip equipped LAs are already fully tested or still beta versions ... " when products are sold to the market, they are production units, not pre-production units (not beta testing), although conventional wisdom is that early adopters are pioneers, and thus there may be some risks... " possible to deactivate neverclip function " Neverclip is a function of the topology of the input and A-D circuitry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vale Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 actually, Howy told me these new transmitters can be used as non-neverclip ones via software... " possible to deactivate neverclip function " Neverclip is a function of the topology of the input and A-D circuitry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Senator should've <hat>'d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Mitchell Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 Just picked up two TRX900LAs with NeverClip and a TRX742, and I'm going to be trying them out on a feature this month! I'll let you guys know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim M Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yes, but even the best D-A converters in the world don't. I realise there will still be a very low noise floor, but it seems those outputting analogue are at a disadvantage. I'd like to know what the additional processing does to system latency, too. I thought this was a viable question Justin raised and was never addressed at least in this forum. So on a Nomad 6/10 or so...you can only use the full capacity of Nevertoeclip for the first 6 channels as they are the only ones that can handle an AES connection, as the analog A-D outputs on the receivers are singular...which I think Justin is assuming or knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RScottATL Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Neverclip is an Input scheme to handle wider dynamics as an analog signal enters the A to D converter and proceeds to the DSP for digital mixing. It is available now at the wireless transmitter and also in a different form on Nomad and Maxx mixers. AES is a digital transfer method so your signal is never leaving the digital domain once it is converted (at the wireless transmitter's A to D converter or via a digital microphone). A normal Zaxcom signal path is Lav, Wireless Transmitter Preamp, Transmitter A to D conversion, FM digital transmission, Receiver D to A conversion, analog cable, Mixer Preamp, Mixer A to D conversion, Mixer DSP. With AES, your signal path is Lav, Wireless Transmitter Preamp, Transmitter A to D conversion, FM digital transmission, AES cable, Mixer DSP. So with an AES input you're cutting out several conversion processes, one of those being the Nomad's Neverclip inputs. Every additional conversion process has the possibility of introducing distortion, though with the professional tools we use it is low enough that proper gain staging will more than compensate for it. In a digital purist's perspective, AES from a digital FM signal is the best way to go, eliminating artifacting, distortion or coloration by maintaining as much digital transfer as possible. Neverclip preamps on the Nomad are best for dealing with a direct mic input such as a boom, hardwired plant mic or any other sensitive input where preamp noise is an issue. I'm not sure how sensitive the D to A converters on the QRX outputs are, so I can't say if NeverClip is truly needed other than to allow more safety with gain staging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 "A normal Zaxcom signal path is Lav, Wireless Transmitter Preamp, Transmitter A to D conversion, FM digital transmission, Receiver D to A conversion, analog cable, Mixer Preamp, Mixer A to D conversion, Mixer DSP." Just for clarity, the transmission of a Zaxcom wireless is a phase/amplitude 100% digital system. There is no FM content. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim M Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Neverclip is an Input scheme to handle wider dynamics as an analog signal enters the A to D converter and proceeds to the DSP for digital mixing. It is available now at the wireless transmitter and also in a different form on Nomad and Maxx mixers. AES is a digital transfer method so your signal is never leaving the digital domain once it is converted (at the wireless transmitter's A to D converter or via a digital microphone). A normal Zaxcom signal path is Lav, Wireless Transmitter Preamp, Transmitter A to D conversion, FM digital transmission, Receiver D to A conversion, analog cable, Mixer Preamp, Mixer A to D conversion, Mixer DSP. With AES, your signal path is Lav, Wireless Transmitter Preamp, Transmitter A to D conversion, FM digital transmission, AES cable, Mixer DSP. So with an AES input you're cutting out several conversion processes, one of those being the Nomad's Neverclip inputs. Every additional conversion process has the possibility of introducing distortion, though with the professional tools we use it is low enough that proper gain staging will more than compensate for it. In a digital purist's perspective, AES from a digital FM signal is the best way to go, eliminating artifacting, distortion or coloration by maintaining as much digital transfer as possible. Neverclip preamps on the Nomad are best for dealing with a direct mic input such as a boom, hardwired plant mic or any other sensitive input where preamp noise is an issue. I'm not sure how sensitive the D to A converters on the QRX outputs are, so I can't say if NeverClip is truly needed other than to allow more safety with gain staging. I appreciate the response, but as you say in the final paragraph the question originally asked by Justin still remains. Essentially the two options on a modern Zaxcom transmitter is use full range of neverclip, which is only useful if you use an AES connection into your Nomad. Assuming the Nomad only has 6 AES input connections, any other inputs are using the transmitter in the soft knee option if the gain staging requires it to leave the QRX via its analog output, which according to Justin has a singular D-A converter, or at least has not been refuted by anyone. When I receive my Zaxcom wireless I will do tests as both Analog or AES digital and see if there are any noticeable variants between the two coming into the Nomad. Might be a wild goose chase, but personally I would like to know if I'm listening to Neverclip or a soft knee compressor. Of course both options in a transmitter are obviously ground breaking and exciting developments though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Aes or not the tx cannot transmit above 0dbfs of a 24 bit signal path. So if you go over 0dbfs at the tx, it will have to be compressed in order to be transmitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim M Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Aes or not the tx cannot transmit above 0dbfs of a 24 bit signal path. So if you go over 0dbfs at the tx, it will have to be compressed in order to be transmitted. Hmm, so at the receiver what is it you see if you use the neverclip option? Does it just show an attenuated signal? But those bottom four bits are reintroduced at the receiver output if it is analog...so you have an attenuated signal with those four bits reintroduced from further down the signal chain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Aes or not the tx cannot transmit above 0dbfs of a 24 bit signal path. So if you go over 0dbfs at the tx, it will have to be compressed in order to be transmitted. So in a Neverclip transmitter, does that mean that you are getting rid of the LSB to accommodate for that signal before it is transmitted at 24 bits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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