DjGo Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I still can't wrap my head around the fact that most of the "SD788t in a soundbag-using-members" of this group get good results with their wireless receivers planted directly against the body of this recorder. I eliminated almost all factors that could possibly contribute to the reduction of reception of my wireless mics. The usual suspects: receivers and recorder on separate powersupply, not using the XLR-ins but the TA3s on the 788, receivers as far as possible from the recorder INSIDE the bag, dipoles mounted on the front of the bag to create even more distance. Tried coax-antennae strapped to the harness.. The audio-jumpercables do not touch any datacable or the power-cable connected to the recorder.. Wireless hop-tx attached to the straps of my harness, they are no way near my talent-receivers. All this effort to create a workable solution for use in run&gun doco situations don't really give satisfactory range (in some cases, not counting in the possible variables in the field like crowded freq-space, tx-placement on the body of talent etc., the reception drops out at about 20 metres..).. So, my last resort was to mount my receiver-rack (Audio Ltd. RK3-2040 recievers) on my back to create even more physical seperation between them and the recorder and placing the whips at a higher point. This gave very promising results, range was more than 50 metres, at exact the same location where, before, my talent dropped out all the time, this time I got clear reception. This leads me to believe that RF-emissions of the recorder are more serious than than SD wants me to believe, unless there's something seriously wrong somewhere else in the chain. Well, this 'solution' is workable but less than desireable, the bonus: better range AND weight distribution.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Often, height is the key. Also reception is very much improved if there is a line of sight between TX and RX ant. With RX antenna at waist height, there's a high chance of people being between TX and RX. The human body absorbs radio waves quite well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I guess you already tried this? http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/788/788t-w-wireless-in-38-40/#more-2564 For me, this was a key motivator in moving to a 664 for 90% of my work. Less battery-hungry too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I guess you already tried this? http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/788/788t-w-wireless-in-38-40/#more-2564 For me, this was a key motivator in moving to a 664 for 90% of my work. Less battery-hungry too. I was aware of this, long before SD decided to publish this.. I mailed them about the issue of the XLRs emitting RF, but I never heard from them.. alas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Often, height is the key. Also reception is very much improved if there is a line of sight between TX and RX ant. With RX antenna at waist height, there's a high chance of people being between TX and RX. The human body absorbs radio waves quite well... I know this is a crucial factor. When working from a cart, I place my antennas on a 3 metrs high mast.. this alone gives me about 8 times the range.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Please don't be insulted by my questions- When you tried mounting the coax dipoles on your straps, did you have your hop tx on the straps at the same time? Did you try a range test with the 788 powered off, then on? I am not familiar with the Audio Limited RFs, do they have a scan feature, or other process to find clear operating freqs? How many talent transmitters are you running? I am currently running 5-6 Lectro SMQVs at 100mw and my range is definitely reduced compared to when I am only running 2-3 talent tx. Just some thoughts, I don't mean to question your knowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Get a cheap palm pilot off eBay, you can then scan your 2040s via infra red. Although there's no doubt the 788 pisses rf all over the ch38 freqs in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Please don't be insulted by my questions- When you tried mounting the coax dipoles on your straps, did you have your hop tx on the straps at the same time? Did you try a range test with the 788 powered off, then on? I am not familiar with the Audio Limited RFs, do they have a scan feature, or other process to find clear operating freqs? How many talent transmitters are you running? I am currently running 5-6 Lectro SMQVs at 100mw and my range is definitely reduced compared to when I am only running 2-3 talent tx. Just some thoughts, I don't mean to question your knowledge I take no offense.. coax on strap, hop on my hip... The only way to judge range on the Audio Ltds is with 788 powered on and listening to the mic.. with the analog systems you can hear noise-ups when the mics reach the outer-limit of their range before they crap out, these wireless mic offer no scan-function unfortunately, so there's no way of visually inspecting how much inteference actually comes from the recorder or not. I run 4 talentmics at most from the bag, so intermodulation shouldn't be an issue, especially since all freqs aboard my bag are coördinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Please post pictures of your RX on your back. I've dreamt of getting most of the gear on the back for a healthier way of carrying the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I considered this a few times going back to the Nagra days. I don't have my RX on my back because I want to be able to see their displays, don't want my rig to be more awkward to get in and out of, and don't want to be running that many cables up my harness. If you use exactly the same setup all the time and are always wearing the rig, maybe, but I often put the bag down on something to do interviews etc and this would be awkward with a harness back setup. I also swap out RX fairly often, so I like to have them in front of me. Show us a pic if you make this. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiofucchi Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I have never had any problem of interference in RF after I separate the power supply of the recorder and the receivers. I have everything in a sound Petrol bag. It is the remote chance that it is your recorder to have some problems of shielding. You should try another recorder of the same type. Sergio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted May 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I have never had any problem of interference in RF after I separate the power supply of the recorder and the receivers. I have everything in a sound Petrol bag. It is the remote chance that it is your recorder to have some problems of shielding. You should try another recorder of the same type. Sergio. A fellow soundguy here in the Netherlands, is using exactly the same setup, and experiencing exactly the same problems and he tried exactly the same to eliminate the culprits.. we both came to the un-scientific conclusion the 788 must be the bad guy in this configuration.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted May 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I considered this a few times going back to the Nagra days. I don't have my RX on my back because I want to be able to see their displays, don't want my rig to be more awkward to get in and out of, and don't want to be running that many cables up my harness. If you use exactly the same setup all the time and are always wearing the rig, maybe, but I often put the bag down on something to do interviews etc and this would be awkward with a harness back setup. I also swap out RX fairly often, so I like to have them in front of me. Show us a pic if you make this. philp I agree totally.. it's not the best solution. I'd prefer having everything in front of me for the same reasons you mentioned.The big plus with having my receivers strapped to the back of my harness is weight distribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 If it works for you then rock on. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted May 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Get a cheap palm pilot off eBay, you can then scan your 2040s via infra red. Although there's no doubt the 788 pisses rf all over the ch38 freqs in particular. Can you tell me how this works? How would you use this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiofucchi Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 A fellow soundguy here in the Netherlands, is using exactly the same setup, and experiencing exactly the same problems and he tried exactly the same to eliminate the culprits.. we both came to the un-scientific conclusion the 788 must be the bad guy in this configuration.. If it were so then we should also have the same problems you have you .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted May 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 If it were so then we should also have the same problems you have you .... My dutch collegue uses a 788t ssd, like me, with Audio Ltd DX2040 wireless in CH41/42/43, just like me.. in the bag, just like me, with range dropping to about 10 metres, just like I have been experiencing. Are you questioning this? I could borrow his 788t but I doubt it will give different results. Not saying I'm not willing to try everything possible to tackle this problem (just look at the dorky get up in the picture I posted.. how's that for a cool-looking soundbag..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 Hmm, maybe combination of audio ltd. with the 788? Is it worse than with your old lectro's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 " with range dropping to about 10 metres, " then ya' gotta' do what ya' gotta' do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traut Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Kish Patel at Audio Ltd told me they tested the 788 and when they started plugging cables in to it, it became an RFI generator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted May 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Hmm, maybe combination of audio ltd. with the 788? Is it worse than with your old lectro's? It crossed my mind.. yes. It is not better than with my old lectro's.. out of the bag that is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiofucchi Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 I have never had any issues with four Sennheiser EW-100 G3 and I do not have with my two Lectrosonics SRb. Maybe the problem is in yours Audio Ltd. Sergio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 I sometimes wear wireless transmitters on my back, or shoulders... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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