First Kit Purchase

[Alex Spencer]

Hi all. 

 

So i've been working for a facilities company for the past 6 years, and im finally making a break for it and going freelance. 

 

I've been trying to sort out a basic kit package to get me started, and would be grateful of any advice. . I would love a 664, but i dont think my budget would stretch to that. I feel it would be a better investment to buy some decent radio's (audio 2040's or Lectro's) with a second hand mixer, than buy a 664 and have to either rent radio's every day, or settle for g3's that im really not a fan of. 

 

I already own a 416, cans, accessories and a bucket load of cabling, so my question is this; 

 

I can get a second hand SQN IVe for around £1k, but would need an external recorder to go with it as i often do a wireless hop to cam and need a back up recorder. I was thinking of a Tascam HD-P2, but i have no experice with this recorder. I like the idea of being able to record timecode along with the audio files. Does anyone have much experience with this set up? Or what other portable recorders would you recomend? The problem with the SQN is that i do not have the flexiabilty in output levels that i would with a sound devices mixer

 

Or i could go for a Sound devices 552 second hand, for around £2.5k. This would save me having a seperate recorder in the bag, but to record timecode i would have to just record a mono mix and TC on the other track... is this true? 

I also like the direct out's on the 552 for cases when i need a multi track recorder (rented 744t). But again, i have never used a 552, i have only used a 664. 

 

Any help or advices is much appreicated 

 

Thanks

 

Alex

 

[Michael Kennedy]

Hi Alex,

The 552 will record a head-stamp timecode from another source, (ie: TimecodeBuddy, Betso TC Generator) still leaving you 2 tracks to record. If I were you I would go that route if you can afford it. The 552 is a great mixer/recorder. I also agree with you about purchasing some good wireless systems and going with a second-hand mixer, providing you do your due diligence and get a well cared for machine. Also, check with your Customs folks and see how much duty you would have to pay on a used mixer from a personal sale in North America, as you can get a used 552 for much cheaper than 2500GBP here. Good luck!

[Jon Gilbert]

The HDP2 is an amazing machine for the money, you cant beat it without going SD, it's a perfect budget partner to an SQN I made countless docs with that combo.

[Jon Gilbert]

And from what I've seen, you don't need to pay more than £850 for a late SQN4, add £500ish for an HDP2 gets you a strong setup for not much dosh.

[Richard Thomas]

The SQN IVe will do post fade direct outs, and they can add direct outs to earlier models too.  The tc on an audio track is just an option on the 552 selectable in the menu

[studiomprd]

" Any help or advices is much appreicated   "

of course this is just a new flavor of a frequent question,  and it always boils down to "it depends", due to the subjective issues...

for example you pooh-pooh the Sen Evo wireless, which is an excellent value, and hugely popular, particularly .for "first kits"...

[Robjsound]

Hi dude I was in the same boat as you last year, worked for a local company for 6 years then went freelance and didn't have gear!

I looked at a lot of options and went with the 664, it just had everything I needed. yeah I took a big hit in the pocket but I've got it now, finger crossed ill get a decade hopefully more out of it! I went with a couple of G3's with 4071's and can't complain, yeah there not 2020 but they do the job on Doc's!

Secondhand gear can be great, 552 or Sqn 5 great kit and if your going straight into camera all the time perfect, but they are still over £2000, then throw a recorder on up either buying or having to rent one every time u need it, overall your not far away from a 664 price tag!

Or a nomad with the option of upgrading it, thou u'd need to look into that one! But it's another great kit with all the things ull need!

future proofed I think it's called! Well as future proofed as you can be...

[studiomprd]

" Well as future proofed as you can be... "

there will be new stuff...

count on it.

[jesserosenman]

I think the 552 only goes up to 96kHz, fyi...

[soundslikejustin]

I think the 552 only goes up to 96kHz, fyi...

The 664 only does flavors of 48khz...

[Martin Kittappa]

When starting out look at the kind of work you'll be doing. Nothing wrong with renting gear in the beginning to get a feel for what's out there and what fits your style. If you drop $$$$$ on buying a piece of gear then you are pretty much stuck with it if it isn't quite working out for you. 

 

As for wireless, nothing wrong with starting out with G3s- You'll be able to afford more channels of wireless, and later when you can afford to upgrade to Lectrosonics, Zaxcom or 2040s you can re-task the the G3s as camera hops or wireless headsets so the money won't be wasted.

[Alex Spencer]

Glad to hear the 552 can head stamp timecode, I feel this may be the way to go for me. I love the SQN metering and analogue sound, but I would prefer a mixer that can record as well rather than having another bit of kit in my bag, just to keep the weight down. Although the SQN package does come in quite considerably cheaper then a 552, giving me more money for toys. Decisions decisions….

 

@robjsound - Yes a 664 would be my first choice, I loved working with it a few weeks back, but for most of the jobs I’m currently doing this is overkill. A 2 track backup is more than adequate for me current needs, and I can always rent a 442 or similar if I need some ISO tracks. ATM I can’t justify the cost for the work I am doing.

 

@senator –  I’ve just never been a fan of the g3 radios, personal preference I know. I realise they could be used as a hop later down the road when I upgrade, but I know 99% of the time the audio being used in post is off the camera, so I feel it would be a better idea to have the best hop I can afford. I have been looking into the Audio EN2 pro’s. I may get a demo of these to see how they perform.

 

@John Gilbert – Thanks for the info HD-P2. I’m going to try to get my hands on one to have a play with. What’s the weight / ergonomics like in a bag with a SQN?

 

Thanks for all your input guys, much appreciated. 

[markfarrowaudiopost]

I'm putting a kit together, I don't like cheap radios

G3 or uwp so I went second hand 200 lectro.

[Jon Gilbert]

In a Pegz1 or 2 bag, the HDP2 sits perfectly in the next slot along from the SQN, it weighs not much, mainly because it's made of plastic, so can feel a bit flimsy next to a 744T, but for £500.....

 

99% of the controls are situated well for bag work, and the remaining 1% are easily accessible with a bit of thought.

 

As I said before, I used the combo for years, having chosen to put my money in radios, and didn't regret it for a minute, of course once I bought a 744T I appreciated the benefits, but I'd still use an HDP2 now if the need arose.

[Richard Thomas]

There's also a Filmtech LSP4 up on BBlist/ebay for £600 at the moment, they're a bit big but sound great and have more routing options than the SQN (can run 2 tails etc).  Martyn at Soundkit used to make them, so can service them.

Again it depends on the work you're doing, if you don't need timecode much and are going to camera it may be worth getting a non-tc recorder for backup and hiring in a 744 or similar on the jobs where you need it.  You'll also need a clock source for the HD-P2 when running TC, although a Denecke SB2a will do (it can reclock off timecode input)

 

For radios maybe take a look at microns- the lower end ones still sound great, although they've got less options frequency-wise.  It's worth looking at your mics first though, they'll make more difference

 

Just as a note, we can't buy Lectro 200 series over in Europe

[Alex Spencer]

Thanks Jon, very helpful info there. 

 

Yes i understand its no comparison to a 744T, but i didnt expect that at £500! I think its the right way to go investing in good radios from the start. 

 

If i can get an amazing deal on a 552 then i'll prob go for that. If not then its the SQN route. My company has offered to sell me one, so i know the histroy of it, just need to haggle a good price! 

 

@Richard - Yes i was aware i couldnt use the Letro 200's over here. I'll be going for cos11 mics on my radio's. I've been using them for years and like the sound and the small capsual size. 

You may have a point about buying a cheaper 2ch back up recorder and renting in a TC recorder when needed. I didnt really think of this. Any recomedations? I've never had a chance to play with any, let alone use them in anger on location. 

[Richard Thomas]

I got by with an Edirol R44 for a while, I preferred the ergonomics to the HDP2, but they've gone up in price since.  I know a couple of people using Tascam DR40 and DR100's with remotes in the bag, the advantage of those over the zoom is they'll take line level on the XLR connectors.  I've also got a Sony PCM-M10 which I use for transcription recordings, but that's got a minijack connector

[studiomprd]

" 99% of the time the audio being used in post is off the camera, so I feel it would be a better idea to have the best hop I can afford "

we agree on this point

[Ed Denton]

 

 I love the SQN metering and analogue sound, but I would prefer a mixer that can record as well rather than having another bit of kit in my bag, just to keep the weight down. Although the SQN package does come in quite considerably cheaper then a 552, giving me more money for toys. Decisions decisions….

 

 

The 552 signal is completely analogue from input to output, only the recorder is digital (as you'll thankfully discover when the recorder jams up but the mixer continues to feed audio to the camera). So there's no real reason for that to affect your decision. I'm a happy 552 user though after 4 years I'm ready for the 664 uprade. Definitely recommend the 552 as a starter. I was just about to buy a 302 mixer when the 552 was released and paying the extra money for the recorder on the 552 was the best gear buying decision I ever made. I paid the thing off in a matter of weeks just on 5D jobs where they needed recording capabilities.

[Malcolm Davies Amps CAS]

Hi Alex,

. Also, check with your Customs folks and see how much duty you would have to pay on a used mixer from a personal sale in North America, as you can get a used 552 for much cheaper than 2500GBP here. Good luck!

The duty on a mixer is 3.7%. (The tariff number is 8543899799.)

You will be charged the following on a mixer costing $1500:-

Mixer $1500 + the shipping say $100 + vat @ 20% on $1600 ($320) + 3.7% on the $1600 ($60) making a total of $1980.

Malcolm Davies A.m.p.s.

[Alex Spencer]

Thanks for the customs info Malcolm, very helpfull. That does work out quite a bit cheaper then i thought it would. Still not sure about getting a mixer shipped half way round the world though! 

 

Cheers Ed, I did discover that the 552 was analog execpt for the recorder after my initial post. I think i may be better off going for an sqn with a small 2ch recorder in the bag, as it works out quite a lot cheaper than a 552. Although i'm still toying with the idea of biting the bullet and just getting a 664, which would save me having the sell on the sqn down the road... its just a larger initial cost to purchase.  

 

Richard, thanks for the info on the small recorders, you saved me searching through posts to see which could take a proper line in signal! 

[atheisticmystic]

1- Gym / Dojo / Trainer : Invest in your body as your primary piece of gear, set aside some of your kit fee for this very purpose.

 

2- Study what Jacque Lacan or Sigmund Freud have to say about jokes and humor : All the various crafts and personalities on set will tip the hand of their emotional agenda with their style of humor, some being angry, some being insecure. The reading will help you intuit people more accurately, navigate around their egocentric bullshit without co-signing it, and thereby get along better with them as a professional.

 

3- Significant other pampering: Invest in your significant other as (sometimes) equally important as your very own body. The schedule alone of this job will serious put your relationship to the test, work hard at letting your SO know how appreciated he/she is. 

 

best