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Time Code Buddy sync for budget-challenged concert show


Philip Perkins

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I would second the ERX2TCD, but with 9 cameras you're looking at $600 x 9 = $5400, or $4500 if you get the bulk discount.

 

If the only issue was Wifi range, you'd have to setup a system with multiple wifi units. As I don't see an ethernet port on the Wifi master, I don't know how you'd effectively extend the range.

 

Off topic, if you didn't already have the JoeCo Blackbox setup, I'd suggest getting a Behringer X32 and recording straight into your favorite DAW. One console plus a computer.

 

Mark O.

No thanks, done with computers for MT location recording if I can be.  Have the scars to show for many years of that.   The combo of a X32+computer+daw is FAR more complex than a console (or just preamps)+ JoeCo, and the latter is far faster to set up and involves no mouse, OS, device aggro, or anything like that.  Cheaper too.

We too thought about the multi TCB thing for diff parts of the venue, but I just didn't have the time to manage different wifi channels for different ops in the various zones, and I couldn't find another TCB to rent in any case.

Trew+LSC, let's step up in the rental dept w/ TCB please!

 

philp

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...maybe an "Android-for-Samsung-Galaxy-users" app could be a nice compromise for Android then?

I dunno... Seems sticking to one model of phone could restrain the parameters so it could be considered, but there still may be more to that, like, "there's so much negotiations and research plus eventual troubleshooting involved so we don't care" ?

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The chances are we will never see an android app

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

I had a demo of the TC Buddy a week or so ago at work from the TC buddy team, very impressed by the system... especially the Mini Trx

 

I asked about an android release as i am tempted by the Galaxy S4. They said they have only gone for ipad/iphones as they have a set refresh rate on all their screens which they have calculated for. Android phones pose a problem as there are 101 different models, and they would have to change the app design for the performance of every device, a comon problem of 'fragmentation' on android devices.

 

They did say however there are plans for an android app to cover the major flagship phones, but it won't be any time soon.

 

Alex

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I had a demo of the TC Buddy a week or so ago at work from the TC buddy team, very impressed by the system... especially the Mini Trx

I asked about an android release as i am tempted by the Galaxy S4. They said they have only gone for ipad/iphones as they have a set refresh rate on all their screens which they have calculated for. Android phones pose a problem as there are 101 different models, and they would have to change the app design for the performance of every device, a comon problem of 'fragmentation' on android devices.

They did say however there are plans for an android app to cover the major flagship phones, but it won't be any time soon.

Alex

I had this conversation with Paul Scurrell after the TCB was released.

I don't think it will ever happen but time will tell

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

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As an old school observer here I used to use two large Digital clocks (from Radio Shack) mounted on either side of the stage with a bloop light behind it. I ran the wires for the bloop light to my location and watched for the raised hand of an assistant camera person, meaning that the camera was framed on the clock. I then fired the bloop light to mark starting sync for each 16 mm roll. Of course we used absence of sync system for the bloop so the was no actual tone on the tape. We often passed put cheap digital watches the cam op could put on their wrist and shoot if they couldn't see the bloop light system.

So, we adapted when time code became available and we all have been involved with making that work. I must say that over the years my favorite time code delivery system has been the revered Comtec. When sent to the comtec receiver on the slate I knew that camera was seeing exactly what my recorder was recording and never worried about drift. I still sometimes use that system today and wonder if I might have made up some output cables from Comtec to IPhone/iPad with a free reader App installed and turned Everybody loose to go where they wished, knowing they were seeing the real thing when they went to the trouble to shoot a sync marker.

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Young Will and I did another of our budget-challenged music recording + video jobs last evening, and we tried out something new in response to a change in the camera dept.s gear.  In the past we'd done many shoots like this where there was a mongrel assortment of prosumer and pro video cameras working, and all of them could A: roll for a long period of time (like a whole music set) and B: could have their internal TC generators set to a specific time and then started manually.  This is what we refer to as "3-2-1-GO sync".  It's not frame accurate for sure, prob a few seconds off, but it gives the editor a pretty close idea of where in the concert they are, and then the camera's onboard audio would serve as a syncing guide.   But now--enter the DSLR.  This is now the camera that most  (young) shooters have, everyone loves the look, the size, the price.  I love them a bit less for this kind of gig, I guess, since they don't do either A or B mentioned above.   This show had at least 5 of them that I actually saw (maybe more--who knows?), in addition to 4 EX1 type cameras (whose TC gens can and were started together, can shoot a whole set from a slate at the top etc).   The stage was very crowded,  the operators, and especially their assistants, were pretty inexperienced (but game) and there was no budget for multiple TC slates, or really a way to deploy them easily during the set for these cameras (roving all over).  After considering a few options (including my favorite--Do Nothing--they chose these stupid cameras after all), our Hail Mary was to try a TimeCode Buddy fed TC from my TC generator (which was feeding TC to my multitrack) and have all the DSLR hordes download the TC Buddy iPhone app.  We hooked up the TCB and raised it up in the air (in the pic Young Will is spotlighting the TCB transmitter with his flashlight).   The DSLR-drivers shot the TCB app TC off their phones each time their cameras auto-cut during the sets.

 

The results with this setup I would have to honestly call "mixed".  The TC I was seeing on the phones was sometimes dead on, but there were also many times were a group of phones would not be showing exactly the same TC (usually the seconds were correct).  Since the show was in a place with a couple of strong local wifi networks, the phones would tend to want to jump off the TCB network and on to the building network.   The signal from the TX seemed a little weak to cover the whole auditorium--some shooters told me their phones sometimes would not find the TCB wifi, or not at first until they went into settings and got it back, then opened the app.  By this time the shooter would be very impatient to get back to shooting, as you might expect, and since I was set up back stage I'm not totally sure what our "compliance" level really was (yet).    

 

In thinking about this TCB attempt I decided that it was still a good thing even if the TC was not perfect all the time, since the TC was always close, ie as good as a manually started internal generator in my experience, and so will provide the "where are we in the show" guide if not a perfect sync line-up to audio.  But…if there was more money up I think I'd opt for something a little less scary and less subject to "outside forces", even if it was phones being a display for the TC coming from a jammed SB3 etc or, God forbid, the time-honored TC slate.  But, as the producer of this show said, the (rented) TCB setup met our "price objective".    

 

Below is also a shot of our "poor-man's 32 track recorder".

 

philp

Thanks for starting an interesting thread here. I don’t want this to come across too much from a ‘manufacturers’ point of view, but wanted to add a few of my thoughts to your experience.

Unfortunately it does seem you were struggling with range trying to connect all the iDevices to the Ad Hoc generated by the TCB wifi master in the venue, especially if there are a few other networks around and maybe even other equipment around using 2.4GHz such as wireless monitors?

It certainly would have helped if the camera operators selected their iDevices to ‘Forget this network’ for any other available networks. Also they should select and turn on’ Auto-Join’ within the settings for the TCBuddy network.

This should ensure that the iOS devices do not wander off onto another unwanted network.

The ISM band (915-918MHz) RF syncing between our devices is far more robust and long range than standard 2.4GHz WiFi. You should get up to around 450-500ft line of sight. I would suggest that maybe you could deploy a 2nd or even 3rd wifi master around the venue (maybe attached to the larger cameras with T/C inputs) – this way you’d be creating a few 'local' WiFi T/C networks closer to the iDevices users?

With regard to the accuracy of the WiFi stream. We re-sync the iDevice every second from the accurate TCXO in the TCB wifi master. Because we use UDP Broadcast packets on an Ad-Hoc network we do not suffer from large changes in latency. The apps have clever decoding routines to work out if late or corrupt packets are received, and if so ignore them. Then the individual latencies of each iOS device are also programmed into the app to make allowances for the different hardware profiles. By using all of the methods we believe that we have created the most accurate method of displaying T/C onto a mobile device for slating and logging purposes. Of course the T/C between our devices is always synced using the ISM band RF system, the wifi stream is purely for the iDevice user.

I hope that gives a little more background information. Thanks, Paul, Timecode Systems Ltd.

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