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Senny 816 vs. Sanken CS3?


Izen Ears

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  I'm looking to add a long shotgun to the kit in order to get something usable out of those landscape wide shots.  I've decided against the MKH 70 since it doesn't seem to have much more reach than the MKH 60, so I was thinking about the mighty 816.  I know they don't make them anymore and I know they weigh a ton, but I wanted to be able to get dialog at 30 feet.

  Someone I respect just told me the Sanken long shotgun is smaller and lighter, and compares to the 816 in its tight pickup pattern and incredible reach.  It would be great because it's so much smaller and lighter than the 816, but would it give me the same sound on those ultra-wide shots?

  Anyone here use both and have an opinion?

  Dan

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I dunno about the Cs3, but I do have an 816T available with Rycote and windjammer.

I just don't need the reach. I bought it new maybe in 1989 or so. Nothing like it out there AFAIK.

negotiable price, and in pristine condition. Original box and documentation included. S/N available on request.

Jim Rillie

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In my experience, the CS3e has a wonderful reach and doesn't suffer from the normal flaw of interference tube mics; that of comb-filtering when the primary sound source is reflected back to the mic by a hard surface, ie. indoors.  But I don't agree that the CS3e has the reach of my 816.  By many feet.  I find that I can often use my 816 (has to be in the hands of a very good boom operator!!  They sound for-shit off-axis.) in place of radio mics on long walk and talks.  It worked so well at the water's edge at the beach that the director couldn't figure out how we did it (three boys in swim trunks).  The CS3e wouldn't have been able to do that.  Where the CS3e shines is indoors for me.  It has all but eliminated my use of the Schoeps; sounds great indoors and out-reaches the Schoeps by a foot!  Too bad it can't bend in the middle; the only times the Schoeps 41 comes out is if I have to use the GVC.  The other benefit that the Sanken has over the Sennheiser is that it's directionality covers it's whole responce pattern.  The 816 gets ever more omni the lower in frequency that it is trying to reproduce.  So against what would seem to be, the 816 is not near as good a choice if you have the genny nearby, even for all its narrow focus in the higher frequencies.

As many have said, microphones are tools and not one tool is appropriate for all tasks.  I would recommend both mics as soon as possible; I would sell my back-up recorder rather than sell either mic in a pinch.  FWIW.

D.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think the Sanken has better rejection but not the reach of an 816.  The 816 is a beast, with HD and the potential for directors to roll much longer than a 1000 ft. mag, the heavier mic looses out.  The DPA shotgun specs out close to a feather, I haven't heard it yet.  What do you think?  I'm for the boom operator and the freedom to move the stick, don't take offence ye old venerable 815-16 etc. your still a great tool.  Now enters the new sheops shotgun. I think the race is between DPA, Sheops, and Sanken.

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FYI-

Scott Lements is offering a Sennheiser 816T for sale through RAMPS. It appears to be a T-power mike but those work every bit as well as the phantom power examples. (You just have to use the appropriate power supply)

Here is the post:

Everything is sold except the Sennheiser 816T with zepplin for $800.

picture here:

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=22414112

I'm just passing on the information; I don't know Scott at all.

David Waelder

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  Man, I took a look at the discussions on this group and RAMPS and they were pretty much split up, but everyone said the 816 gets omni for the low freqs.  Since I wanted a long shotgun for ultra-wides where there generally is some sort of low-freq noise this seemed problematic.  Plus the fact that for whatever reason they stopped making them.

  All of the posts said the Sanken barely has less reach than the 816.  Pretty astonishing considering how the CS-3e has a short barrel.  I'm sure I'll get more isolation and more reach than with the CMIT-5u, and I've heard more reach than the MKH70.  A few posters had both mics and they said they barely use the 816 anymore, though they admitted that in a quiet location outdoors the 816 can grab some pretty amazing dialog from 20-30 feet away.  But I figure I'm barely ever in that quiet of a location.

  Also everyone said you can use the CS-3e indoors, that it has less backwards axis, and all agreed the 816 sounds bad indoors. 

  So I went with a new CS-3e, which I'll have my boom use for the first time in 2 days on Friday, in a noisy moving trolley for a dialog between 3 children.  I don't want to wire the kids, I hate wiring kids, so I'm really hoping the CS-3e will cut it.  I've been told I can have the windows closed, but if it's an 80-degree day this might not be practical.  I didn't really consider the Neuman since I have the CMIT-5u and wanted reach and isolation.

  It would be great if Sanken made the same mic as the CS-3e but with a long barrel.  For that matter it would be great if Shoeps did the same thing...

  Thanks for the tips!

  Dan Izen

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  Man, I took a look at the discussions on this group and RAMPS and they were pretty much split up, but everyone said the 816 gets omni for the low freqs.

It would be great if Sanken made the same mic as the CS-3e but with a long barrel.  For that matter it would be great if Shoeps did the same thing...

Thanks for the tips!

Dan Izen

Most "shotgun" type microphones that use an interference tube design become somewhat omnidirectional at low frequencies. Also, the "long barrel" or length of the tube does not tell the whole story. The beauty of both the Sanken CS3e and the Schoeps CMIT (and we can probably add the new DPA mic to the list but I haven't used it yet) is that they achieve god side lobe rejection, good front to back, smooth frequency response and "reach" but in a small, short, lightweight package.

-  Jeff Wexler

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I agree with what Jeff has said, and will also add that the Sanken's lack of reliance on a long interference tube also makes it far more suitable for reverberant, reflective environments.  I can also offer the comment that I have found very little use for my Neumann KMR82's since purchasing my Sanken CS3e's shortly after their introduction.  I often find that, in noisy environments, some shots that I probably would have had to have relied on radios for in the past, are now boomable thanks to the CS3e.

So, if anyone's interested, Neumann KMR82 for sale :-)

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  So today I used my brand new CS-3e in a very loud moving trolley thundering down the streets of New Orleans and it worked great.  It was very crisp and clear (my boom had used it before and knew the axis) and the lines came right out.  Didn't sound as well, "movie-like" (you know, better than life) as the CMIT-5u, but those lines came right out.  And it was natural; the roar of the trolley was present at about -15, with the dialog peaking at -2 but you could still hear the lines.  I did not have to wire which was great since it was 3 child actors and I prefer not to wire kids.

  In short I'm very glad I went with the CS-3e over the beastly 816.  Thanks to the group for revisiting this topic many times over, I was a phone call away from getting the 816 before I did the research here!

  Dan Izen

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