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DeafDave

Sennheiser MKH 8050 hyper cardiod - bass cut and handling noise on boom pole

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Im looking to buy an 8050 for indoor use on tv and film on the end of a boom pole.

Obviously handling noise is going to be an issue on the end of a pole.

So Im wondering about the fact that you cannot put a basscut between the capsule and the preamp on the 8050, unlike the schoeps collete system.

So my options are:
1 - to put in a bass cut made by sennheiser for the 8050 which plugs in just after the capsule+preamp unit

2 - to use Rycote's Tac!t cable just after the mic unit

3 - just to use the bass cut on my 442 mixer

Obviously options 2 and 3 are a lot cheaper but I want the best sound possible, Im just not sure if spending 6 times the money on the Sennheiser bass cut is worth it if a simpler solution exists which doesnt affect the sound quality

What are people's experience with the 8050 on the end of the pole and its handling noise?

And what bass cut options have worked for you with regards to traffic rumble etc and boom handling noise?

Thanks for any feedback!!

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I use the low-cut on my 552, usually on the lowest setting or slightly above. Only issue I've had is with fast turns/swings.

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I always thought that it was better to insert a bass cut between the capsule and the mic's own preamp to prevent any overload by bass?

 

Schoeps make a cut1 to insert between capsule and their CMC preamp its a lot more expensive than the other bass cut module which is just a female to male xlr unit which inserts anywhere in teh xlr cables after the mic

 

With the 8050 its only possible to insert a basscut after the mic's capsule and preamp unit and Im wondering if this going to cause problems?

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" So Im wondering about the fact that you cannot put a basscut between the capsule and the preamp on the 8050, unlike the schoeps collete system. "

you have, IMO, an incorrect fact.  well somewhat incorrect, since there is in fact a low-cut filter module as part of the modular 8000 system; consider that as equivalent to having a switch built into the mic..

thus that filter or other external filters are your options... there has been previous discussions about the (in)effectiveness of the available filter option, The Tac!t is a fine option, and less expensive, there are also other in-line filter options (Shure) and my old favorite ElectroVoice (discontinued years ago)

" solution exists which doesnt affect the sound quality "

any filter solution, by definition, affects the sound quality.

" Im wondering if this going to cause problems? "

what problems..do you expect ? Sennheiser has designed their preamps to deal with the output of the capsule, and I have not heard or read of any problems...

some folks have issues, many have dealt with this base response in their application of shock mounts.

some folks have the same issues with Schoeps and other mic's...

 

" but I want the best sound possible, "

possible, or practical, ??

consider the alternatives.

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Im looking to buy an 8050 for indoor use on tv and film on the end of a boom pole.

Obviously handling noise is going to be an issue on the end of a pole.

Hi Dave - I was going to ignore this, however its significence jumped out at me.

The Senator was correct when he said you should probably look more closely at one of the sources of the problem - ie the shock mount.

The other is the way you handle your boom pole.

In over 30 years of using hand held boom poles and probably 4 years of using Mole Richardson type booms, I cant recall ever having handling noise issues. But then i PRACTISED - heaps.

 

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I have had zero handeling noise issues with my mkh8050.  I purchased the cut module though.  I'm using a couple different Rycote Invision series mounts and really have to mishandle the pole to get any kind of noise.  I did a test when I first purchased the mic with and without the filter.  It seemed to me, that you could probably use the mic without the filter and not have any issues but I enjoy having the cut (I also have the 8060 so the module services two mics) and having the -10db pad at the flip of a switch is a real lifesaver when you need it!

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I don't find the low-cut from sennheiser does enough in the 'off' position (-3dB at 16hz) and I think cuts too much in the 'on' position (-3dB at 160hz). I use it in the off position to help with getting rid of infra-sonics, and I have the low cut on my 552 just clicked on - which is -12dB at 40Hz - to take care of handling noise/rumble. I have it in a cinela OSIX1 suspension with special soft suspension provided by Phillipe at Cinela, and a Schoeps B2D on the front (idea from Glen Trew).

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I use an 8050 in a rycote windshield with an Ambient floater and it's fine, no worse than an MKH50.  Obviously if your used to chucking a 416 around then it'll take some getting used to.  I never bothered with the Sennheiser low cut module, I had planned to buy it if I had any issues with handling noise but didn't need to.  I tried a Rycote Tac!t cable but found I had crank the gain so high I nearly ran out of pot on a 442.  It also introduced huge amounts of RF and mobile phone crap.  I've found the 8050 to be less susceptible to RF than a MKH50, and smoother on the edges.  I use it for just about everything, indoors and out.  I have an old 416 in the peli but it has only come out once in the last year.

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I know that Sennheiser make a bass cut for the 8050 but my point was that you cant place it between the capsule and the preamp which you can on a Schoeps Colette system.  Some people unscrew the 8050 and think the pre-amp is the xlr module but the capsule and its preamp are in the same unit.  I spoke to someone who works in Sennheiser yesterday who thought this!

By the sounds of it neither setting on Sennheisers bass filter is going to work well for boom poling.  You have a choice between too little at too low a frequency or too much at too high a frequency.
Its certainly not a bass module designed for recording speech on the end of a boom pole.    
Rycotes Tac!T is soldered into the male XLR body between the pins and until that last comment was looking like the best and least expensive solution.

Its worrying if its going to pick up loads of interference - its doesnt really made it an option - unless someone knows of a way of using incorporating the Tac!t without all the interference?

The other options would be the Schoeps LC 60 inline bass cuts - has anyone used them and did they cause any increase in interference?

Thanks again for your feedback

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I also just cut the bass at my mixer. the 8050 offers soo much bass anyway that it is no problem to cut, respectively for my taste it is often too much bass that needs to be cut. no handling noise problems, just wind from faster moving. here I still search for a solution. babyball gag is too huge for my taste.

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" I spoke to someone who works in Sennheiser yesterday who thought this! "

actually, it is correct.

so ?

" you cant place it between the capsule and the preamp which you can on a Schoeps "

maybe you are over-thinking this, and frankly I'd challenge you to a blind test,

 

" Its certainly not a bass module designed for recording speech on the end of a boom pole.   "

I believe that is correct.  Sennheiser sells an awful lot of theses 8000 series to music recorders, thus it is a compromise.

 

" Its worrying if its going to pick up loads of interference - "

more over-thinking..?

I have not had that problem...

you will get gray hair

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I have a couple of 8050 mics. The proper mount will make the huge difference. Long story short, when the Invision mounts came along I was able to love the mic. Just get the proper one as the mic is very light. When hardwired to my Fusion I can create a custom low cut in the EQ section which is totally effective. When using wireless boom I had high hopes for the PSC Universal Power Supply, but have found the high pass filters take away too much low end to be usable. The mic sounds castrated. That power supply is still useful for the switchable pads, which are very handy (especially for the Sanken CS-3e which has a hot output). Best solution when wireless has been the Schoeps LC 60 U inline.

 

http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/lc

 

I haven't used Sennheiser's MZF 8000, but it is hard for me to imagine that -3dB @ 160Hz would be very helpful. And for that kind of money, might as well buy the Schoeps LC 60 U.

 

Paul

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I got the INvision6 from Rycote - which ones did you find worked best?

 

Its such a tiny mic when you see it for real - any photos online never really had anything else in the photo to give an idea of scale.

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The Rycote Invision7 got rid of the handling noise, but I thought the 8050 had a smiley face EQ (big bottom, big top).

 

So why would you want that for dialog? I like a solid Schoepsy midrange, where the voice lives. 

 

Regards,

 

Ty Ford

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seems like an old thread, but an evergreen topic! soft lyres, placed quite close to each other seems to be pretty efficient for the 8050. And the rycote baseball for no swing sound. That's a new thing that wasn't there when the thread was started.

 

I am curious about the Tac!t cabble though...

 

enjoy christmas!

Oscar

Edited by Oscar
misspelling

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2 hours ago, Chris Woodcock said:

To many issues with the Tac!t for it to be useful. 

 

Baseball is good but it won't get rid of the "woosh" 

Really, what are the issues? I just worked with it once and didn't had issues.

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17 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

Really, what are the issues? I just worked with it once and didn't had issues.

 

From my personal experience, I had rf interference issues with my Tac!t cable when I used it with my DPA 4017C. It’s a bummer, I really like having a low cut in line before the signal hits my ZMT Phantom with the 4017C. 

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17 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

Really, what are the issues? I just worked with it once and didn't had issues.

 

28 minutes ago, Robert Bluemke said:

 

From my personal experience, I had rf interference issues with my Tac!t cable when I used it with my DPA 4017C. It’s a bummer, I really like having a low cut in line before the signal hits my ZMT Phantom with the 4017C. 

 

What Robert said

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4 hours ago, Robert Bluemke said:

 

... I really like having a low cut in line before the signal hits my ZMT Phantom with the 4017C. 

 

 

The ZMT has its own high pass filter you can use -- with selectable frequencies.  It's in the extended menu within the AUDIO sub-menu. 

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1 hour ago, John Blankenship said:

 

The ZMT has its own high pass filter you can use -- with selectable frequencies.  It's in the extended menu within the AUDIO sub-menu. 

I like to cut the lows before they hit the A/D converter if I can, but I have been using the high pass built into the ZMT. 

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10 hours ago, Robert Bluemke said:

 

From my personal experience, I had rf interference issues with my Tac!t cable when I used it with my DPA 4017C. It’s a bummer, I really like having a low cut in line before the signal hits my ZMT Phantom with the 4017C. 

Allright thanks, good to know. I used it with a 8050 and connected it at the bag side of the chain just before going in to the recorder, so not wireless.

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