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First time with the RED


curleysound

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I just worked with the Red camera for the first time. We started the day on Build 15, which had all 4 audio inputs active, as well as 3 video monitors, 2 on board, and one for video village. Everything was going smooth, but they began to format a drive, and the whole thing froze up. Between finding out what was going on, calling the company, and returning to build 13, we lost a good hour. Build 13 only has 1 audio channel, which was fine, as I used my Schoeps all day. Not to worry, I'm rolling a 744t as well. The camera is definitely noisy, on par with a PC fan, when rolling, and like a hair dryer when powering up, and some other sporadic moments. The best part of the shoot is that we're doing several "audio only" days, where I get to go around the location with the actors and director and recreate the scenes for sound only. The cam dept. is just giddy at the whole thing, but aren't too savvy. If there's a true silent mode, I'd love to hear about it!!!

Tom

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Shot a spec TV pilot with a RED last weekend.  Don't know the build number but the fan would shut off during REC and come back on at PAUSE.  That's pretty considerate of those Red people if you ask me.  I'm a little unsure of the audio settings for the camera, however.  The owner/operator of the camera set the audio settings according what he was told by RED.  So the 1k alignment tone came in at -38.  (Don't know if that's -38 dB or -38 on some arbitrary scale of 100)  The MixPre never peaked (never got close not even to the MixPre limiter) but the meter on the camera would jump from green through yellow and right to red at the least provocation (indicating what I would believed was peaked audio) but the playback sounded nice.

Jeff

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Something that I noticed today was that we were able to confirm that the camera records 1 channel of audio in Build 13, but does not play back audio through the on board headphone jack. Build 15 did play back through the phones, but is not stable yet. I haven't heard much difference in the noise from the camera during rolling. It sounds pretty much like a computer fan. The camera guys have it set to variable. I see on the menu page that it says silent, but it might not be available in build 13. Anyone have any Red experience with this fan issue? The great thing about this short is that they have booked an extra day with the actors and the location for sound only, so I'm going to get to do some on set sound design. Planning on using 2 schoeps MK41s in an XY stereo pattern. Also, big thanks to FSbella for providing some cables that I didn't have time to get made! Too bad we're only using one channel now :(

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You can shut off the fan while in record mode , it's in the menu. (ie: runs when not rolling , turns off during takes)

I had the assistant configure that last time I had a project that used the RED.

Just don't ask me where in the menu it is though...

Grant.

update:

The Latest RED manual for version 1.8.1 is here: http://www.red.com/support 

Look at page 33 onwards for audio related issues. (looks like the fan slows down, but doesn't stop)

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So, the gig is done now. We did get the Silent mode engaged, and what a difference! The variable mode was livable, on par with an F900, but the silent mode really is the only way to go for quiet shots. Fortunately, there were only about 5 lines of dialog, and those were all fine. Overall, I wold say that it's a really interesting camera with heaps of potential, and I'm willing to bet we'll be seeing lots of it in the next few years. It is kind of unnerving having no controls on the exterior of the camera, however, and no gain knobs leaves me to wonder what type of preamps, and other assorted audio guts are living in the RED.

Tom

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The fan going off when the camera rolls is good.  However, this means that the set has the fan running, sometimes possibly loudly, during the entire "Sound Check", including the blocking and the rehearsal.  At least the other computer fans we try to push back as far as possible from set (including the sound cart :).  The "Red" is at the camera position, including the close up.  Are we to, uhmm, quietly accept this as the new norm? 

Has anyone really explored how necessary these fans actually are?  Are the temperature control aspects possibly designed just for the worst case scenario?  Imagine the extreme heat and bad air of a post or music recording facility with many racks of air cooled gear in a sound proofed equipment closet (a high end facility is going to support climate controlled, clean environments, but we've seen the rock & roll worst).  The gear works and continues to work under nasty conditions.  I'd like to hear first hand experience with equipment failure, catastrophic or undefined, from overheating.  I remember the engineer putting a pencil in the fan of the old Leder Scopes when the room was too small to push it back.  These were CRT monitors, and you could feel the heat after a while, but I don't recall ever having a problem with them.  Were these fans designed for the worst case scenario?

I'm sure we can post here many tales of the sound problematic equipment that evolved on the set, and the many fixes that were utilized, from camera enclosures to Barneys, or moving the ballast, dimmer or gennie back.  It is also evident that at least with the camera, the problems did not actually occur until after the camera rolled.

Can the computer/Red manufacturers design their products to work alongside the other field equipment in a quiet and effecient manner?

BTW lore on Sound Barneys.  I believe this has been discussed here before:

http://www.customupholsteryproducts.com/html/sound_barneys.html

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Almost all new high end video cameras have fans (F23 etc etc).  They are just too busy electronically to get along without them.  Barneys are not going to help, since blocking the camera's ventilation can cause picture problems followed by component failure.  The RED is worse than most since it is just as busy but has a smaller body (less surface area) and virtually no air vents (plentiful on F23 etc)--it relies almost completely on its fan to keep its temperature in operating range.  Thus the fan is audibly running even when the camera is in a coolish room.  In addition to the noise made by the cameras, many onboard HD monitors (Ikegami and Astro particularly) have their own fans--and they run all the time regardless (and often have their backs--where the fans are--pointed at the talent).  Also--many if not all of the flat-screen director's monitors have fans as well, but many of those can have the fans switched off, at least for awhile.  (All this and out-of-sync pix too!)  Even HD CRT director monitors (Sony 9" for instance) have power supplies w/ noisy fans (also generally on the back and thus pointed at the talent).  I've been struggling with these lately--they can't be turned off and covering them puts the monitor at risk. 

Philip Perkins

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Guest afewmoreyears

Quick question,

What is going to happen when this camera hits the full force of a California, Arizona or Nevada  Summer ext. shoot....  Or,  on some indoors stage or Location shoots.....  Sounds like it may cook....  Whats the ceiling on operable temperatures....  Anyone know?

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Quick question,

What is going to happen when this camera hits the full force of a California, Arizona or Nevada  Summer ext. shoot....  Or,  on some indoors stage or Location shoots.....  Sounds like it may cook....  Whats the ceiling on operable temperatures....  Anyone know?

Friends who have been on "hot" shoots with the camera describe software and media issues, and bags of frozen vegetables hanging from the camera body.  For a camera with such obvious heat dissipation issues black was an interesting choice for the body color.

Philip Perkins

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What is going to happen when this camera hits the full force of a California, Arizona or Nevada  Summer ext. shoot.... 

I turned down an indie film that is shooting next month along the south Texas, Mexico border. I found out that they plan on using a Red for that film (yet wouldn't pay squat for the crew, go figure). That time of year, in that part of the country is going to be very interesting, temperatures will already be in the high 90's to 100's. It will be interesting to see how well that production does with the Red in those conditions.

Wayne

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