pampasound Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Hello there, As i have been brainstorming lately towards my next piece of equipment purchase, i have noticed little difference between a wireless system such as SRb or QRX (with their respective Txs) and a mixer/recorder such as maxx, 664, nomad. Please don't get me wrong as i truly believe that all of the above are top quality equipment that have gain a respected reputation through out the years. However, i am trying to compare their price tag with their capabilities and functions. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 To me the archcompetitors in this (small) field price their products very close to that of the gear they are competing with most directly. So among them you've probably noticed that a certain sort of thing costs roughly a certain amount no matter whose stuff you go with. Mixer/recorders with more than 4 inputs are between $4-6 thousand dollars to start, devices with more inputs and fancier interfaces are a few thousand more, and then there are more exotic "limited edition" machines (Nagra, Cantar, Sonosax mixers, digital mics etc) that are even more than that. So once you have your money together it's really about deciding what system works best for you, in your work and with your brain. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 To add to that, comparing wireless systems against mixers, is about the same as looking to compare oranges and helicopters. There aren't any overlapping features other than you can buy them and they eat power. Now if you want to compare Lectrosonics wireless against Zaxcom or Sennheiser or Audio-Technica wireless... Now you have a discussion, because they do the same basic job and have similar feature sets. To (sort of) address your question - At the top of the quality food chain, there are a few players that far exceed all others in what they offer for quality in each feature, so it really does come down to how the workflow of each device fits with your personal workflow. Me personally, I come from a more analog mixing background, and I prefer Sound Devices gear over Zax for mixing. I also tend to prefer Lectro for wireless... However I don't own any Zax wireless, and after talking with Glenn at NAB, I can see a possible future with some of their items for specific purposes that will fit with my current workflow. Maybe I will find a Lectro item that will do the same, maybe not. Believe it or not, cost is probably the last thing I look at, because like Philip said - the prices really aren't too far apart at that level for the main players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 ...comparing wireless systems against mixers, is about the same as looking to compare oranges and helicopters... I'm not positive, but I think we're having a cultural moment. I think he wanted to compare Lectros to Zax AND ALSO Sound Devices to Zax. About which you then obliged him, Jim. best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Once you get into pro level gear, price becomes secondary to form, function, and personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmassey Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 +1 Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 I'm not positive, but I think we're having a cultural moment. I think he wanted to compare Lectros to Zax AND ALSO Sound Devices to Zax. About which you then obliged him, Jim. best I think I see where I missed the "and" in his post, that you caught Steven. *facepalm* Well, I feel like an idiot for today. Thanks for catching that. Doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Please don't get me wrong as i truly believe that all of the above are top quality equipment that have gain a respected reputation through out the years. However, i am trying to compare their price tag with their capabilities and functions. I think once you reach a certain level, it becomes a "Lexus vs. Mercedes vs. BMW" comparison, where all of them are very good and differ more in terms of features than performance. Reliability, upgradeability, ease of use, and serviceability are all also important factors. I often think it's better to rent any expensive component you're getting ready to purchase just to make sure it does everything you think it will, and also that you can relate to the way it's designed and how it functions. I've gone back and forth between Sound Devices, Lectro, and Zaxcom, and all three make great products at different price points that do different things (and sometimes similar things). I think at this point, they share far more similarities than differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampasound Posted June 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Thanks everybody for the feedback... I am presently running a SD302 with a DR-680 and have been trying to make up my mind between getting a camera link or a more capable mixer/recorder. I know it could seem like i am comparing apples and tomatoes (and i probably am!)....and i know it is kind of silly to compare a wireless system with a mixer/recorder, because they serve different purposes. However, i find that there are lot more things a mixer/recorder can do as opposed to a wireless system, and that is why i find that either wireless system are overpriced OR mixer/recorders are underpriced. And again, that is just my uninformed opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Quinn Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 I think once you reach a certain level, it becomes a "Lexus vs. Mercedes vs. BMW" But if your using Audio Ltd 2040s your driving an oldRolls Royce .LOL It is a bit of a shame that in real life I drive VW Passat Diesel ,oh well maybe in my next life. Best John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Thanks everybody for the feedback... I am presently running a SD302 with a DR-680 and have been trying to make up my mind between getting a camera link or a more capable mixer/recorder. I know it could seem like i am comparing apples and tomatoes (and i probably am!)....and i know it is kind of silly to compare a wireless system with a mixer/recorder, because they serve different purposes. However, i find that there are lot more things a mixer/recorder can do as opposed to a wireless system, and that is why i find that either wireless system are overpriced OR mixer/recorders are underpriced. And again, that is just my uninformed opinion.... Not sure what you are really asking? Are you concerned about the price of high quality radio mics? Or are you worried that Zax and SD are not making enough money on their recorders? Are you asking for advice on what to buy? You know what, I'll wait for the Senator to get here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Thanks everybody for the feedback... I am presently running a SD302 with a DR-680 and have been trying to make up my mind between getting a camera link or a more capable mixer/recorder. I know it could seem like i am comparing apples and tomatoes (and i probably am!)....and i know it is kind of silly to compare a wireless system with a mixer/recorder, because they serve different purposes. However, i find that there are lot more things a mixer/recorder can do as opposed to a wireless system, and that is why i find that either wireless system are overpriced OR mixer/recorders are underpriced. And again, that is just my uninformed opinion.... Well, as to the camera link vs. more capable recorder question: only you can answer that. It Depends on what you need more often. Is your DR 680 just a back-up machine and primary audio goes to camera? Then it's obvious you should use the best hop you can afford. Are you sending a scratch track to cam, and they use your recorder's files in post? Then you need a good recorder and that scratch hop could even be a spare Comtek. It's not cheaper to manufacture a good wireless system than to manufacture a good mixer. Lots of R&D and quality control in both. The parts are, usually, the cheapest factor in any kind of professional gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Another factor is if one needs TC, a huge price difference between the Nomad, 788, 664... and the under $1k Tascam. Camera hops and recorders are apples and oranges. When I do a camera hop, and presuming the cam audio will be used, I normally use a 2-trk back-up to save weight and cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Now I owe Jim a facepalm...we ARE comparing bananas to doorknobs...doh!!!! Pampasound, are you asking which addition to your kit makes more sense right now, an upgrade in your wireless kits, or an upgrade in your mixer / recorder ? If so, Constantin is correct...(watch for rhythmic ripples in your beverage as he approacheth) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampasound Posted June 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Hey guys, Sorry for the confusion...never mind then! and yes, i am surprised that Senator hasn't chime in yet!... Thanks everybody for the thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Thanks everybody for the feedback... I am presently running a SD302 with a DR-680 and have been trying to make up my mind between getting a camera link or a more capable mixer/recorder. I know it could seem like i am comparing apples and tomatoes (and i probably am!)....and i know it is kind of silly to compare a wireless system with a mixer/recorder, because they serve different purposes. However, i find that there are lot more things a mixer/recorder can do as opposed to a wireless system, and that is why i find that either wireless system are overpriced OR mixer/recorders are underpriced. And again, that is just my uninformed opinion.... You're asking what your clients are going to be needing most from you in the foreseeable future. I met with them last night and they all said, "quality work and fewer silly questions." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 You're asking what your clients are going to be needing most from you in the foreseeable future. I met with them last night and they all said, "quality work and fewer silly questions." John, you ARE a smartass, aren't you? Brilliant. The Senator hasn't chimed in yet, because he was busy in Atlanta today at the event where Gotham Sound was trying to get everyone pickled on free drinks if we asked intelligent questions. See what a fun day y'all missed? :D I'm sure his answers would be technically accurate and simultaneously... Completely useless. "Contact the manufacturer, RTFM, and It Depends." Meanwhile, a more helpful suggestion might be along the lines of what Peter Kautzsch asked you above: Which do you feel that your workflow needs more at this time? If you aren't recording the sound yourself (it is going to camera) then a wireless hop seems to be the answer. If you are keeping the sound to yourself in the bag... Then get a better recorder. When I purchase my gear, (sometimes before I actually had a gig for it) I buy things that will make my workflow on set easier for ME, which allows me to focus more on capturing the best sound possible in the horrid conditions that the producers give me. Does every purchase get paid back in rental? Of course not. I don't get a DIME for the battery distribution system I have set up... But I am expected to have something, and this system makes my life easier, which is why I got it. So the big question again seems to be, where do you want to go next? What kind of jobs have you had, and what do you hope to have in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 I'm sure his answers would be technically accurate and simultaneously... Completely useless. "Contact the manufacturer, RTFM, and It Depends." Sadly, this is often the correct answer for a very complicated question that requires judgement. Often, there are no fast and easy answers to questions like this. The fourth answer The Senator sometimes gives is, "you often get what you pay for." I think this is very apt when it comes to the question of "how do features relate to price in regards to pro audio gear?", which was the original question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Depends.... "Sadly, this is often the correct answer for a very complicated question that requires judgement. Often, there are no fast and easy answers to questions like this. " Marc Wielage This is the truth about work, life, family, most every question one can come up with IMO. This is my free advise. As Marc pointed out, "you get what you pay for"... CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markfarrowaudiopost Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Buy second hand high end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 " However, i am trying to compare their price tag with their capabilities and functions. Thoughts? " competition... actually, Like Constantin I'm not sure what your question is... " The Senator hasn't chimed in yet, because he was busy in Atlanta today at the event where Gotham Sound was trying to get everyone pickled on free drinks if we asked intelligent questions. " and Christina did quite well.... (guess I asked some good questions, as there was free drinks involved) Marc's car analogy is spot on...the different makes and models of our gear are comparable to the various makes and models available to car buyers, and BTW, a VW Passat is an excellent choice, and VW's are hige in Europe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markfarrowaudiopost Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 VW have a bad name in certain parts of the world senator, there is currently a massive recall over cars that switch themselves off while in full speed on a freewway. Imagine buying a SD recorder that shut themselves down mid shoot... There would be riots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 " currently a massive recall over cars that switch themselves off while in full speed on a freewway. " I thought that was Toyota... recalls, and lawsuits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 Buy second hand high end. Very good advice, especially for someone just entering the business contemplating a big equipment purchase. Once in a while, you can pick up a 6-month-old or a year-old piece of gear at a big discount over buying brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markfarrowaudiopost Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 Very good advice, especially for someone just entering the business contemplating a big equipment purchase. Once in a while, you can pick up a 6-month-old or a year-old piece of gear at a big discount over buying brand new. I've been buying 200 series (10 year old) lectro units, they still sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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