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I love when people get angry about my rate


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A Cinematographer emailed me via my website for a film job flat rate $150.00 a day with gear so here was my response:

$150.00 is slave wage for a sound mixer as a "Professional Cinematographer " you should know better than that. Gear rental for your project should be $300.00 by itself.

Then his answer:

That was uncalled for.

I did not list the project as HGTV, NBC or any other of the big companies who can pay up to $750.oo per day for Sound Mixers with gear.

Its an INDEPENDENT with a LOW BUDGET.

150.00 equals $15.00 per hour for a 10 hour shoot.

Thats better  than nothing if there is no work? No?

Enough said!

Best wishes,

I love what people think is a fair wage

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Guest afewmoreyears

$15.00 an hour is not that much above In and out burger.....  You just can't communicate info to someone so out of the loop.  This person was not even worthy of the expense of an e-mail.... and that essentially free....  what an idiot he was........

  And no, watching the Jetsons with with a bowl of cereal is better than going in for that rate....  Heck, the fuel is more these days!

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Guest afewmoreyears

but then you wouldn't get a free meal during your shift, uniforms paid for, school credits and medical coverage.

Your right,  In and out is actually a better deal!!!!!!

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I just came back from a shoot for NATGEO in México city, and after I sent my Invoice I got a call from the NYC crewing agency bitching about my rate ($550/day). This producer was crazy mad about my rate stating that she won't pay me unless I revised my invoice for what I used to charge 4 years ago ($400/day). I told her I thought I was doing her a favor with this "special" lower rate but... WTF!!!  I used to trust this agency but not anymore.

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Guest afewmoreyears

I just came back from a shoot for NATGEO in México city, and after I sent my Invoice I got a call from the NYC crewing agency bitching about my rate ($550/day). This producer was crazy mad about my rate stating that she won't pay me unless I revised my invoice for what I used to charge 4 years ago ($400/day). I used to trust this agency but not anymore...

  Discussing the rate in that manner,  after the barn burns down,  is both bad business on their part and classless to boot.....  Shame on them!

    Hell, every single thing I can think of has jumped in price by I don't know how much, and we're supposed to hold our prices steady for  years and years.....  Yeah,  right!!!  Welcome to the "new economy".......... 

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Everyone wants a deal, so they can save up for their Lexus payments.  We've been over this a lot, but doing the negotiating up front is usually a good idea.  I hate doing it, but then again I like hassles after the fact even less.  In answer to the rate stated above ($15/hr) a sound mixer I used to know would say--"You know, for that money it's not worth it for me to be away from my phone."  I know we always say that "they'll get somebody for that rate", but they don't always....

Philip Perkins

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Gotta tell this story again.

I got a call a year or so ago from a panicked director who had just had their sound man walk off the set (with all his gear). This was a low budget indie shoot. She called early on a Saturday morning and asked if I could come right down and do a 12 hour day, then follow it up with another one on Sunday. I told her I'd have to reschedule some stuff but I could do it. I even told her that I'd just charge her my normal rate (low by this board's standards). When I told her what it was she got very quiet and then said... "we were hoping you'd do it for free". Seems the ignorant director had run up her credit card bill and "just couldn't afford" to pay for a soundman.

I told her that she had already paid the actors, booked the location, gotten the crew, paid the DP (yes, all these positions were paid, but the soundman was supposed to be free!). If she didn't get a soundguy then they'd be making a silent film

Her answer shocked me.

"Can we at least borrow your equipment?"

Click

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Gotta tell this story again.

I got a call a year or so ago from a panicked director who had just had their sound man walk off the set (with all his gear). This was a low budget indie shoot. She called early on a Saturday morning and asked if I could come right down and do a 12 hour day, then follow it up with another one on Sunday. I told her I'd have to reschedule some stuff but I could do it. I even told her that I'd just charge her my normal rate (low by this board's standards). When I told her what it was she got very quiet and then said... "we were hoping you'd do it for free". Seems the ignorant director had run up her credit card bill and "just couldn't afford" to pay for a soundman.

I told her that she had already paid the actors, booked the location, gotten the crew, paid the DP (yes, all these positions were paid, but the soundman was supposed to be free!). If she didn't get a soundguy then they'd be making a silent film

Her answer shocked me.

"Can we at least borrow your equipment?"

Click

Reading the above, I'm reminded of the line: "A lack of planning on their part does not constitute a crisis on your part."

Eric

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I am new to the board but not to the game.  Part of my Q & A with who ever it is that is trying to crew me out besides all the sound questions I ask, I make sure both parties knows the rates.  Always upfront.  I never want to show up anywhere and start haggling over a rate.  This for me would take my mind off what's really important and thats for the project to sound great.  During my intern days of working for one of my hero sound people, right in the middle of the shoot the producer started to haggle with my boss over his rate.  The producers could not understand that laving up a extra 3 people would increase the rate.  As professional as he was I saw him mumbling to himself about this guys attempt to nickle and dime him.  It made him bitter for the rest of the day, so who wins here? 

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... Part of my Q & A with who ever it is that is trying to crew me out besides all the sound questions I ask, I make sure both parties knows the rates.  Always upfront...

There's a way on how crewing agencies operate & it's designed to work for them. They would negotiate a rate and expect you to stay on that rate indefinitely, and if you dare to ask for raise they'll put you in the cooler also indefinitely.  Eventually they'll "book" you again, but since they are a Crewing agency they must have a budget accepted by their Client before they can start booking the crew, which brings you back to point one, you either take the gig or go back in the can. Well, I decided that if they cant afford my services better call someone else who's willing to play that game.

Returning clients always call & ask me for my current rate. Crewing agencies never do that.

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Guest afewmoreyears

Serg,  I agree with your post:)....

I use a crewing agency too.....  It's called me and my reputation of getting good sound in usually horrid conditions....  Location sound recording for film....

  That being said,  I never liked the idea of others doing my "deal making"  as much as I hate doing it myself......  I know DPs use agents,  and so do a lot of Make up people, but for us .....  I think due to the nature of what is needed technically, and how it is to be done,  we have to ultimately do this stuff ourselves.....

Pleading you case for pay is bad enough dealing with one person,  now you have to deal with two ............  Producer and Agent or agency.

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Pleading you case for pay is bad enough dealing with one person,  now you have to deal with two ............  Producer and Agent or agency.

I understand that, and I really feel for this person who is only trying to make a living working as a "Senior Production Coordinator" for a major NYC agency; but am also trying to make a living as well & that's maybe the part they don't understand...

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hey guys,

a bit off topic, but maybe not. a friend -sound mixer- told me today that he is owed over 9k for the past 3 months for several gigs (not one account) different jobs. what is owed is entirely GEAR rental (not labor, he was payed weekly or daily etc for labor)

I told him that if the company would have rented from a rental house, they would have to pay up front cod (terms of course if they were on account) the companies he worked for , he said that the majority of them were 1st time clients with no history at all with him. his problem starts there I think, he billed 1st time clients for the rental gear. my understanding is , that if you have no history w/a prod. company you get paid in advance at least 50% of the gear and then net 10-15 the balance due. the bummer is he sub-rented some gear to compliment his kit for some of these gigs.

any thoughts or suggestions on how you guys deal with 1st time clients w/ no history. I mean there are exceptions to a degree (mixer referrals, a upm's new prod co. etc)

thanks.

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1st time client 50% upfront balance due at end of job. Payroll jobs are a bit safer. Get a contract signed.

what if they are one or two day gigs. full gear 100% ?? payroll your sound gear as well as labor or just one big invoice? ya, contracts or deal memo's are always nice.

he was educated today. and very frustrated/depressed (9k) 

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a friend -sound mixer- told me today that he is owed over 9k for the past 3 months for several gigs (not one account) different jobs. what is owed is entirely GEAR rental (not labor, he was payed weekly or daily etc for labor)

He should try to find an attorney who will either help him "Pro-bono" or for a percentage of the settlement. The attorney can place "liens" on the assets of the various companies as well as their officers.

Many years ago a company that owed over 100K for equipment rentals to myself and the Key Grip - were taken over by the Film Guarantor. The Guarantor refused to pay. We hired an Attorney who placed liens on the film company, the editing room and all the film, as well as the Producer's houses!

They settled in 24 hours, paid all attorney fees plus interest on the money owed.  He should get tough and get even!

RL

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The crewing agencies tell you what your rate is, not ask you what your rate is.  Most of them want percentage of your rate for getting you the job.  I either don't accept or raise my rate high enough that they balk at it or it covers the fee.  I just get tired of the insulting rates that we are TOLD to work for.

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Guest afewmoreyears

Just say that because you are a new client, and I have no history with you, I will be needing a location check at the end of the show....  It's that simple.  Any company with good standing will have no problem with this.  I will even ask this of companies from NY or the East coast....  Ever try to get your Equipment money from them?  (If your a West coast mixer).... It can sometimes be a pain...

  As for Fsbella's friend,  I bet he gets most if not all of his money.....  It will just take a while....

  Many companies these days are in fact taking 30 to 60 days to pay anyhow......  Normally.....  A few big ones even longer, and they are popular companies! 

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