Zaxcom Maxx - Here's the latest

[Olle Sjostrom]

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about... I need to really mindstretch myself to understand when you would ever need to record something lower than 50 hz.. The Maxx and nomad was designed with dialog in mind, and they do that pretty well and have sold pretty well, right? Whenever I work with dialog and/or effects, I hardly ever record without the 80hz hpf engaged on my 302. One big reason being metering...

50 hz is more than enough, even for music IMHO.. When do we ever listen to music below 50hz? I personally feel nauseated... (Sic! And sick)

Like so many others have said; we all want the perfect machine. And these requests and wishes are all just a sign that the Maxx and nomad are so close to perfect that these little details and tweaks are all there's left?

I don't own a Maxx or nomad myself yet, but as soon as I can, bank allowing... But I've checked every machine available and the nomad both fit my list of features. As of yet, there's no other competitor IMO. I doubt that 30 missing hertz will be a deal breaker any time.

[John Blankenship]

The issue is that these "missing Hertz" don't live in a vacuum. Plus, "cut off" frequencies don't have a knife-edge ledge.

A high-pass filter has a curve, which means it also affects frequencies above the -3dB point that the filter is speced at. Depending upon the slope (1st order, 2nd order, 3rd order, i.e. 6dB/octave, 12dB/octave, 18dB/octave), it can extend into the range that does affect what we're capturing, especially when you consider that this is compounded by any additional filtering we're doing at the mic, or subsequent to the preamp.

I'm a huge fan of knowing exactly what my equipment is doing internally (frequency response, gain staging, compression, etc.), and lacking that, feel hampered by the equipment I'm using and less than fully supported by the manufacturer.

While our ears are the ultimate guide, it's valuable to be able to "do the math." If a mic's cut off is 70Hz @ 24dB/octave, and its variable roll-off is at 6dB/octave, and the mixer has an arbitrary 50Hz high-pass filter, followed by a software e.q. (and if you're wireless, there's likely additional roll-off in that system), the total result becomes increasingly less predictable. Prior to deploying the mic I want to be able to calculate and understand what the cumulative affect on my signal will be.

Any professional device speced at 20Hz to 20kHz should do just that. Likewise, a professional device should make clear any deviation from the published specs and the operating conditions under which that might be encountered.

I don't expect such precision from the Zooms of the world, but I do see the value of it with the premium gear we deploy.

[Wandering Ear]

If there is a fixed roll off at 50hz, then the 20-20 spec is inaccurate, and should be updated.

Personally I'm ok with a fixed 50hz roll off. If it was fixed at 80hz, that is to high for me, I'd like to be able to adjust it. 50hz is low enough that it won't bother me.

[franky03]

 

Ok, its not the end of the world (see pic)... we are talking about 3dBs in the "critical" 50hz to 100hz region. Nothing that cant be fixed in post if doing music/sfx recording. Would of been nice if it could of been flatter... but it think its acceptable for me

 

Franky

[studiomprd]

" the DIT didn't eject the card properly from his mac, or pulled it early, thereby corrupting my mirrored WAVs. "

so... even if one "never loses power", marf files might be needed...? valuable and worth having..?

and BTW,  stating that one never loses power is mighty tempting to Murphy; and the corollary to his law is that he will strike at a most inconvenient moment.

 

" a hardware hpf at 20 hz, "

and I suggest 12 Hz

Edited August 24, 2013 by studiomprd

[Jeff Wexler]

Yes, this is another instance of the value of Zaxcom's dual recording system utilizing MARF. MARF is a fundamental functional feature of all Zaxcom recorders from the very beginning.

[Chris Campion]

I just want to say a personal thanks to Glenn. He called me up and walked me through it all (I had an old version of convert).

 

I assume the DIT didn't eject the card properly from his mac, or pulled it early, thereby corrupting my mirrored WAVs. The marf files converted and everything came out pristine.

 

Again, great customer service and product come through!

Just to be clear, are you saying there were WAV's and MARF's on the card that was prematurely ejected, and the WAV's corrupted but the MARF's didn't? 

[Jack Norflus]

Yes, this is another instance of the value of Zaxcom's dual recording system utilizing MARF. MARF is a fundamental functional feature of all Zaxcom recorders from the very beginning.

Since Maxx records both WAV and MARF on the same card there has been posts both here as well as Facebook with people wishing that they can shut off and not record the MARF files to save room on the card.

MARF has been the basis for all of Zaxcom recorders since the beginning. MARF recording makes Zaxcom recorders for the most part foolproof. Once again I don't know why someone would not want to have the security of MARF.

[Jack Norflus]

Just to be clear, are you saying there were WAV's and MARF's on the card that was prematurely ejected, and the WAV's corrupted but the MARF's didn't?

That is my understanding.

MARF records to its own directory.And would be untouched by someone transferring files off of the CF catd

[Chris Campion]

I see. I assumed he went back to the MARFs that were elsewhere, and retrieved the pristine recordings by re-converting. (In which case  secondary WAVs would have achieved the same result.)

 

I'm reading 'MARF' so much that the word has lost all meaning. lol.

[Tom Visser]

What is the slope / order of the hardware 50Hz filter?  Even if I wanted full range, a modest filter at 50 would not be objectionable at all, as it would help more in real world situations than it would hurt in preventing any "warmth" from a recording. Sub-60/70/80 Hz frequencies, especially with respect to dialog, have almost nothing to do with perception of warmth.

[studiomprd]

thank you, Tom.

[Olle Sjostrom]

What is the slope / order of the hardware 50Hz filter? Even if I wanted full range, a modest filter at 50 would not be objectionable at all, as it would help more in real world situations than it would hurt in preventing any "warmth" from a recording. Sub-60/70/80 Hz frequencies, especially with respect to dialog, have almost nothing to do with perception of warmth.

My point exactly. Every time I write on here I forget how little English I actually can put to print.

[Nick Campbell]

To clear it up: on Maxx, Marfa and WAVs are on same card but two directories. DIT was transferring WAVs, and unplugged.

MARF saved my ass. 40m interview, talent flew in from Atlanta. No redos. Network client.

[Constantin]

What is the slope / order of the hardware 50Hz filter? Even if I wanted full range, a modest filter at 50 would not be objectionable at all, as it would help more in real world situations than it would hurt in preventing any "warmth" from a recording. Sub-60/70/80 Hz frequencies, especially with respect to dialog, have almost nothing to do with perception of warmth.

And most of us are probably not capable anymore to hear much above 17 or 18kHz. And yet, if a device advertises its frequency range to top out at 20k, I would expect, nay demand, that it would do just that.

[studiomprd]

" MARF saved my ass. "

marf saved the DIT's butt...

 

" And most of us are probably not capable anymore to hear much above 17 or 18kHz "

And most of us are probably not capable anymore to hear much above 15kHz, or much below 65 Hz

[Tom Visser]

And most of us are probably not capable anymore to hear much above 17 or 18kHz. And yet, if a device advertises its frequency range to top out at 20k, I would expect, nay demand, that it would do just that.

 

But manufacturers wouldn't have to say specifically that they place a low-pass filter that might affect that range, to filter out converter artifacts.  A 50Hz high pass filter still would allow useful amounts of frequencies to pass, with a TBD amount of attenuation per octave.  The lowest fundamental of any acoustic instrument, unless were talking pip organs, is nowhere near this frequency, but if we are talking about pipe organs, 6, 12 or even 18dB of attenuation can be re-equalized just fine in post.  More common will be rumble and other sub-harmonic hash that adds nothing to the recording.

 

To Zaxcom, I personally think that any filter should be the user's choice to put in, at least anything that is above 20Hz and below 20KHz, but on the flip side, the fact that it exists, doesn't negatively affect my opinion of your product at all.

[Zack]

That all changes when you get into sfx editing, severely slowing and pitching things up and down.

[VASI]

My English limitations.. Damn it. Ignore me.

[Nick Campbell]

" MARF saved my ass. "

marf saved the DIT's butt

He has no idea! I didn't throw him under the bus to see if I could get it sorted first.

But really, at first I thought Marf was a nice addition I'd never use, but within a week of owning my first Zaxcom recorder and it saves production, and a DIT's job.

[Jim Feeley]

But manufacturers wouldn't have to say specifically that they place a low-pass filter that might affect that range, to filter out converter artifacts.  A 50Hz high pass filter still would allow useful amounts of frequencies to pass, with a TBD amount of attenuation per octave.  The lowest fundamental of any acoustic instrument, unless were talking pip organs, is nowhere near this frequency...

 

What about piano, aren't the bottom 10-11 keys below 50hz? And some contrabass wind instruments...but piano seems more significant.

 

I know/think MAXX is designed for dialog. Glad to hear the fixed HPF is at 50Hz rather than 80Hz. 

[Zack]

Maxx is designed for more than dialog (as I've heard Glenn express). You don't need 96k > for dialog.

[Jack Norflus]

Just a reminder - the only version of ZaxConvert that will work with Maxx MARF files is version 6.13

http://www.zaxcom.com/software-updates

Any earlier version will not work.

[Wandering Ear]

What about piano, aren't the bottom 10-11 keys below 50hz? And some contrabass wind instruments...but piano seems more significant.

I know/think MAXX is designed for dialog. Glad to hear the fixed HPF is at 50Hz rather than 80Hz.

Lowest fundamental on a standard piano is 22hz, however there is very little acoustical energy generated. Most of the energy is in the first and second harmonics, which causes you to "hear" the fundamental note despite the lack of acoustical energy.

[Constantin]

I agree that probably even with classical music not much below even 50Hz is needed. We (humans) can hear or perceive the fundamental frequency even if it's not physically present. Those lowest wanted frequencies will be competing with many unwanted frequencies/rumble, so a hpf will usually be used anyway.

Nonetheless, I would like to be able to make that decision myself and not have it made for me.