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Zaxcom Maxx - Here's the latest


Jack Norflus

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Well, to me that is a major oversight. So you can't decode an MS signal to two card tracks, unless you are only operating with that mic and nothing else, and record your outputs. So I would have to get something like a mixpre to decode and then record those tracks, alongside radio mics on other tracks etc. That is poor for a professional tool at this level, imho. I did ask this specific question much earlier, and was assured you could do it, no mention of only to the outputs, and not to card tracks.

 

Justin, you can't put phase invert on the tape/mono output, and even if you could there is no way of internally bussing the result.

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A bit OT:

Ive been having a hard time jammin tc to my Maxx :-/

Not doing the jammin, but staying in sync.

I know most of you guys are sending or receiving tc via wireless but shouldnt I expect tc to stay in sync for at least a couple of hours with a jam?

Wednesday shooting with c300 (master clock) in 23.976. the tc drifted almost 1/2s within the morning. Rejammed after lunch, drifted about the same in the afternoon.

Friday shooting with 2 Sony Hd cams (cant remember the model, cheap basic eng cams) jammed to cam A (master clock) at the beginning of the shoot and tc drifted way more this time. I set my Maxx to 29.97df. Maybe thats my wrong doing right there... But when i got the maxx i tested with a sony deck and it was pretty solid and was staying in sync.

Now on both shoots tc is no biggie has on the first one (advertising shoot) i placed a mic on cam so we could sync with pluraleyes and on the second shoot (run and gun) i had their sony wireless (slot in) as a hop. So its all good... Except i would like timecode to be as solid as possible anyway as a safety.

Please excuse me for the long post but if anyone has tips and tricks it would be very much appreciated :)

Franky

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Well, to me that is a major oversight. So you can't decode an MS signal to two card tracks, unless you are only operating with that mic and nothing else, and record your outputs. So I would have to get something like a mixpre to decode and then record those tracks, alongside radio mics on other tracks etc. That is poor for a professional tool at this level, imho. I did ask this specific question much earlier, and was assured you could do it, no mention of only to the outputs, and not to card tracks.

 

Justin, you can't put phase invert on the tape/mono output, and even if you could there is no way of internally bussing the result.

 

 

The MAXX will decode an MS source to use in a stereo mix.

 

The MAXX will decode an MS source to a headphone monitor.

 

The MAXX will record an MS source as iso tracks so that post can properly utilize the MS encoded signal for use in a post production mix.

 

 

Please explain why decoding the signal and recording isolated decoded tracks is desirable over delivering the MS isolated tracks to post.

 

Please also explain why anyone would take the time to record MS if they were not planing on delivering the MS encoded tracks to post as MAXX currently does.

 

With the encoded signal post can decode it as they like. I would not imagine any post facility would want decoded MS when they can easily decode it themselves.

 

The MAXX is a very capable professional recorder. If we have overlooked something. I would like to know. 

 

Glenn

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Glenn, I often deliver stereo either to the mix or the post, using an MS mic. Yes, sometimes I can leave it as MS and let them decide. But it is my experience, in the UK, that if you deliver MS, the S is usually discarded straight away. There are many editors with no understanding of MS, so it falls at the first hurdle. I had a long chat with a producer who also edits, and is one of the rare examples who understands about deliverables and stereo techniques. He said that if you deliver as MS it will never make it to stereo, however if you deliver as stereo, then it will be recognised as such, and stands a chance of being used. This merely confirmed my previous experiences. So I now routinely decode my MS mic to two iso tracks, using the other isos for radio mics etc. It also gives me the option to send a mix to camera which has a stereo ambience or music, with the possibility of mixing radio mics into it. In fact I did this on Tuesday at an orchestral rehearsal, and they loved it. (Not with a Maxx). The theory that post will deal with it correctly sounds logical, but believe me they do not, outside of big budget productions. Very often, in fact almost always, they will not go back to the iso's - even on decently funded documentaries. If you stick with MS, then you can really only send the M in your mix with radios etc, so that they will never know there was an MS track available, and they will not go hunting through scores of files to find them. I can understand that, with budget and time pressures. So I hope, not from theory, but from field experience, that you can understand how decoding MS at the input stage is very important if you want to deliverable stereo which will actually be used.

So, I am not saying for a moment that Maxx isn't a good and capable machine, what I am saying that I was surprised, and disappointed to discover that I cannot do this with Maxx. Granted, not many people may require this or work in this way, but it is all about flexibility, no? To me having MS decoding on the output buss but not the inputs is the wrong way round. It is a simple enough matrix, but the only way I can see to do this as it stands is to use an external mixer before the Maxx, which is an extra I would rather not have. My first mixer, an SQN (over 20 years old), had MS decoding before the output buss, and I think all my mixers and recorders since then have had it, so that is why I was surprised, since I had assumed Maxx would too. I thought I may have missed how to do it, so that is why I posted my request.

It is a shame, and I was wondering if there is a way to implement it, maybe with an update? A simple toggle in the ENG menu to make inputs 1 and 2 an MS pair would suffice, if you don't want to put the matrix in the routing menu - which would be the other option - why have the matrix with phase reverse possible in the headphone and output busses, but not the input busses? Seems a small improvement, but one which would make me really love the Maxx. Sorry, but I really don't want to upgrade to a Nomad for one small function like this. I will have to stick with my larger, and heavier, machine - although I was hoping Maxx would replace it - it nearly does in every other dept.

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So what did you guys use before all those wireless tc boxes?

Wireless not necessary. Regular proven sync boxes (Denecke, Ambient, etc.) jammed from common and stable sync source (usually your recorder) then attached to the camera. The sync box puts out continuous TC so whether the camera shuts down, changes battery, etc., proper TC is available. Now, the various wireless solutions give you the added benefit, depending on how the system works, of continuous updating of your initial jam. 

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I have synced Maxx with a c300 several times and it held sync with no issue. I can't speak for the Sony cameras you were using since I don't know the model but I have had no issue syncing nomad (same TC circuitry as maxx) with no issues either.

Sorry should have put that I had no issue syncing nomad with the Sony 700
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Offhand the C300 will not take a jam with the wrong TC. I once had a 788T do a factory reset during lunch. After lunch, powered it up and went to jam cameras and it wouldn't go. Anyway, point being that the camera won't take the jam. 

I've done a lot of C300 shoots with my Nomad, and like Jack said, we always jam after any power cycling (battery changes etc). My camera people are used to it, so it's just habit now for them to find a mixer after a battery change. In the past I used the Denecke SB-3 on those cameras, and more recently an ERX2TCD. If you use a QRX100Q with the IFB board, you can output the TC. I don't have the IFB board in my QRX, so I can't give real-world comments on that, but it's on my short list of upgrades to have done. 

 

In my experience, many professional broadcast cameras (the big ones) have pretty good clocks in them (as well as the Alexa). Unfortunately, the mid-sized cameras are getting adequate images for TV, so a lot of reality shows are buying the much cheaper (and smaller, and lighter) cameras that have to cut out some features somewhere. 

 

If you get a chance, check TC before a battery change, and right after. That's probably where you'll see your glitch. 

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Wireless not necessary. Regular proven sync boxes (Denecke, Ambient, etc.) jammed from common and stable sync source (usually your recorder) then attached to the camera. The sync box puts out continuous TC so whether the camera shuts down, changes battery, etc., proper TC is available. Now, the various wireless solutions give you the added benefit, depending on how the system works, of continuous updating of your initial jam.

+1

I'm a big fan of my Denecke sync boxes. I use one as master on the cart (and sometimes even in a bag) and another on the camera.

While the cart's Deva has good time code, the Denecke is even tighter -- my typical measured results with the Deneckes are within a tenth of a frame between units over several hours (YMMV -- but probably not by much).

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I actually send the TC embedded in the UHF signal and out put that to the camera. This frees up the ZaxNet to send return back to my bag.

That's how I'm using it right now with a C300, works like a charm. I always prefer to use an ERXTCD2 because of size, weight, and power consumption, but sometimes production wants 2 channel high quality audio recorded to camera.
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