geordi Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 On one of the very few production gigs I've done, I was on a green stage for the whole thing. I had never done that kind of work before, so I was all concerned about being out of frame. When I watched video playback my whole body was in the shot. I asked why nobody complained and they said not to worry..that they'd just remove me from the shot. Corollary to that was a set I was on - Also all green screen, and my boom op had to endure the complaints about being in the shot from the DP, while the VFX guy who was on set the whole time was informing anyone with ears that he could just paint it out later, as long as he didn't cross between an actor and the camera. He even said repeatedly - get the best sound possible, and HE would take care of it in post. Lovely man. The DP continued complaining every time the boom was (massively) in shot... Come to find out that the fool was planning to use the greenscreen footage RAW for his reel. Yeah, I didn't understand it either, and it made me want to slap him silly for causing such a stink on the set. He was just barely out of school (so was I at the time) but he already had the fully-formed ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I've met a few DOPs who will scream cut as loud as they possibly can if the boom dips in by a 16th of an inch for two frames. I've only cut in the middle of a take a couple of times when something's failed and I've stopped recording. It's extremely stupid for them to complain, because I'd say about 75% of the time, it's a very trivial fix in post to paint out the boom mic. The exception would be if it covered the actor's face or hit somebody in the head. I'm very reluctant to ever call cut, but I have yelled out just as the director calls cut, "WE HAD A PROBLEM! Can we do another take for sound, please?" If the director is on a Comtek, he or she should be aware when we had a problem, but sometimes they get distracted and can't or won't hear a plane, a set falling over, a passing truck, or somebody off a mark and getting missed by the boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 The DP continued complaining every time the boom was (massively) in shot... Come to find out that the fool was planning to use the greenscreen footage RAW for his reel. If that happened to me, I'd call the AD and the DP over for a brief conference, and make it clear I wouldn't put up with that in a green screen situation. Even for a demo reel, they can still paint out the boom mic for zero money. It's a garbage matte! It's done every single day. Hell, you can do it in free Resolve Lite for zero money! I concede that it is more difficult to paint out details like set lights, set edges, and mic booms with handheld cameras. At some point, it becomes a time/money issue: spend money now to fix it on the set, or spend money later to fix it in post. The trick is, the final shot probably will be just a few seconds long, and that's chickenfeed to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 EVERY director I have worked with over the last 2 years, except one, will remove headphones before calling "cut". So addressing issues over headphones is useless. Our AD calls moving on from video village without checking with anyone if there's an issue. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim M Posted July 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 So hmm, seems to be that most comments seem to differ from each other slightly...which is the norm of course, but at this point I'm wondering if in the future the boom can be fully in a shot (not in actor to camera angle) and removing it is almost as simple and cheaper than ADR'ing the shot/sequence. I mean I recently did a Samsung commercial and the Galaxy S4 a prosumer device can erase photobombs within a few seconds... It is strange how crazy people can get on set and then I hear the editor on set or whoever say calmly, "oh yea that will be easy to remove, we will just frame that out..." or w/e ...interesting...the very reason we use lav's may no longer be a "good" reason to use them in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siddho Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Anyone other than the director who yells "boom in" is a douche. The Pros don't. There is a better way. There will be words if that happens. last year there was a german DOP who shouted so loudly when the boom dipped in, doing it directly into the microphone, that the mixer (a good friend of mine and a very gentle bloke who wouldnt hurt a fly) lost his hearing for 2 days and was hospitalized. no joke! the b*stard DOP didnt even apologize when my friend returned to work 2 weeks later! i would have had 'words' too but a lot of people are weary of causing any ripples with the production in case they might not get booked again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I thought that just in case camera, actors or the director got it right once sound was expected to get it right everytime! Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 (Gandy Moon) Incidentally, I had the idea of a device that feeds a quiet beep into the boom op's phones that the mixer or someone behind a monitor can press if the boom gets too edgy. *** I have used the PL switch on the mixer to accomplish this. There is a soft click in the boom op headset when the switch is pushed. And, of course, since it's the PL switch, there is no noise on the track. One could speak into the skate mike but it often takes a moment to position one's mouth over the mike or just to have the presence of mind to speak quickly. Just pushing the PL switch can be done very quickly even when not completely mentally focused. David There are some cases where the camera is moving a lot, and there is some other obstacle, and I might talk in the boom op. I only recall having to do this in a few very rare instances and it's usually in one crazy move that has dialog and action with camera movement. It's a case where talkback saves the day. Well, talkback and being able to see the "danger zone" on the monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 EVERY director I have worked with over the last 2 years, except one, will remove headphones before calling "cut". So addressing issues over headphones is useless. Our AD calls moving on from video village without checking with anyone if there's an issue. Ugh. Now here's a point. My current production is like this. We often end up with just one take and the director jumping up without calling cut, just saying 'lets move to closeups' or something like that. If I tell him we had an issue he's usually like 'it won't be much of a problem'. Yes it's his movie but I did consider telling my boom op to dip in in case he noticed that he was really off in a take. That's like the final weapon we have plus nobody asks questions why we need to go again. But this should only happen once in a while. On a side note, I just overheard the DP ask the boom op to please get into the safety just before the other actor speaks so the DP would know when he should tilt down to catch the other head. So there can be other ways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 " how much do Hollywood level boomers bust takes for whatever reason? " HUH ? this makes it sound like you got some bad information that this is a practice. Intentionally busting a take is not in a boomer's job description, and doing so by intentionally dipping in is. in my experience, neither legitimate, nor acceptable. " What about when a gaffer doesn't make room for your operator(s) " this is also not part of the experienced, professional movie making workflow, but when there are issues, they are dealt with as part of the set-up, and not by busting takes. " When do you usually discuss said protocol for audio halting takes? " pre-pro, or early on first day when that isn't possible (like day playing...) I'm with Philip: " directors call cuts and no one else. " and JW on this, even for sound disasters unless we have discussed the possibility, and even then I'm reluctant. If it is really bad, I call out an audible: "I'm sorry", and let the director (or AD) actually call the cut, and if they don't, we go on... " the idea of a device that feeds a quiet beep into the boom op's phones that the mixer or someone behind a monitor can press if the boom gets too edgy. " Like David, I tap my PL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Gandy Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 This reminds me of a (very) low budget feature I OMBed this time last year. They were shooting at 16:9 and masking to 2.39, and someone had strung gaffer tape over the safety zone on the director's monitor because they obviously wanted to reflect this mask. The DOP and I had chatted earlier and had agreed that he'd be happy for me to ride the safety zone in the frame given the mask, and he'd give me a signal if I was getting too edgy. The first day went well with one or two dips, and the director decided he'd watch back some rushes on a computer at lunch. On the very first take he said "I noticed a boom drop in there". I responded with something like "I've heard nothing from the DOP so the rest should be fine". Sure enough pretty much every take that the director watched back had everything from an inch of foam to an entire pole and shockmount hovering and bobbing around at the top of his frame. I've never seen someone so confused – how could nobody have noticed the boom in every single shot? It took ten minutes for the DOP to explain the 2.39 mask to him. Incidentally, there were a couple of dips here and there, but after mentioning it to the DOP (you know that feeling when you may have just dipped in?) he just said "Yeah, I saw it, but we'll just shift the footage up under the mask over that bit, or crop it out". Oh the beauty of 4K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bauman Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 On CSI:Miami I think I intentionally dipped twice in ten years. The circumstances of each would be long in the telling, but I believe that on those extremely rare occasions, it was justified. I worked on a low budget film with an earnest but inexperienced director. I dipped in once on that shoot because I felt I was doing him a favor. He would often forget to call cut at the end of takes, much less if a track went bad. One of our actors expressed frustration that she was allowed to continue during a plane. The next time a plane came over her dialogue, he didn't cut as she had requested, so I dipped as a reminder. I would not recommend dipping as an effective means of protecting the soundtrack, but once on a very great while, it might be the right thing to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shastapete Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I recently did a 16:9 to 2:39 crop film where the DOP and director loved the wide shot look. I lived in the "safety" the entire production. DIT freaked when reviewing day 1's footage, said there wasn't a single shot where boom wasn't in frame. But when he applied the mask I disappeared. I credit that to good communication with the DOP and camera operator and a friendly "point" when I was being too agressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 " there wasn't a single shot where boom wasn't in frame. But when he applied the mask I disappeared. " oh how I yearn for those golden, olden professional days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 " there wasn't a single shot where boom wasn't in frame. But when he applied the mask I disappeared. " oh how I yearn for those golden, olden professional days Me to,but they are soooooooo gone J.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 good communication This is what many contemporary productions lack. And it is what, to me, makes a really professional shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuhiva Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Sometimes the Boom Operator has no other solution than to work with a wireless monitor, when the DP is a freakin as.h.le!!! Boom operator Fred Mascaras on set of a French movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 DOP: Do you want to check the monitor? ME: No, just let me know when I'm in. DOP: Huh? True story bro.. Regards, Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoff Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 F 'em if they can't take a joke. It always sounds better when it is in the frame... I watched some older episodes of The Tonight Show with Johny Carson from the pre lav days when the guests were boomed. If the shot was too wide for good sound the boom would dip into the shot and stay there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 " the boom would dip into the shot " you have that backwards... the boom stayed where it needed to be, and if a camera pulled out to far, the boom got into the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoff Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 " the boom would dip into the shot " you have that backwards... the boom stayed where it needed to be, and if a camera pulled out to far, the boom got into the shot. You are correct, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 The boom is in the shot? Then you need to check your framing, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 " Then you need to check your framing, " there are situations, like this, where 'the boom is in the shot...so?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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