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Man of Steel a mess of sound


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Bernie, I didn't mean to agree with the statement that it sounds bad. I was thinking that the OP might be expecting it to sound like a scripted show.

Having mixed quite a bits of reality TV myself, I now this not to be the case.

Also, having seen a few of the episodes of D&D I too never thought it sounded particularly bad either.

Thanks Mark!  

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Frequently the subtitles accompany off-axis sound, and I'm imagining a camera person on their own without the sound peep, and a discussion about budget where the UPM or EP says they dont have the funds for what the sound peep recommends to facilitate rogue shooters and their sojourning.

I've noticed that too.  Happens a lot on some reality shows.  Trying to get too much coverage for too little money.

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Frequently the subtitles accompany off-axis sound, and I'm imagining a camera person on their own without the sound peep, and a discussion about budget where the UPM or EP says they dont have the funds for what the sound peep recommends to facilitate rogue shooters and their sojourning.

Yes, I'm sure this is how it goes down. However, it is "reality T.V." so at one point the sound/picture must be bad in order for the audience to believe it's "real". 

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What I thought was even more distracting was the darn shaky cam. I can't stand it. I don't get why it is becoming a standard now.

 

If you think Man of Steel had shaky cam, then I would strongly suggest you avoid World War Z. My problem with those super-shaky movies is, you also get a lot of weird juxtaposed edits where you're kinda going, "wha happened?" When you can't quite figure out what side of the room the hero is at, where the villain is at, who's fighting who, who's winning, where they're running to, and all that stuff, it can get very confusing very quickly. Jerkycam + 1 second cuts gets bewildering... but maybe I'm old. 

 

I had zero problems with films like Avengers or Iron Man -- fast cut when it needed to be, it told the story, the camerawork was very fluid and graceful, and the dialogue was intelligible 100% of the time. One wonders why it isn't always done this well.

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I know the crew that works on the show and I'm curious to know why the sound is so bad in your opinion.  I've watched the finished show on the air many times here in the US and I've not noticed any issues, and in fact I think it sounds pretty good.  

Bernie!

No professional would turn in sound that was gating the way that the sound is on transmission. It has to be the post where the trouble lies. I'll concede that some of the locations are very noisy but surely there has to be a compromise between high background noise and the dialogueversus how much gating and compression is used.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that it was the sound recordist that was at fault.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s.

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Bernie!

No professional would turn in sound that was gating the way that the sound is on transmission. It has to be the post where the trouble lies. I'll concede that some of the locations are very noisy but surely there has to be a compromise between high background noise and the dialogueversus how much gating and compression is used.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that it was the sound recordist that was at fault.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s.

Thanks for the clarification Malcom.  The next time I see it I'll listen for gating and pumping compression.  To be honest I've not noticed anything like that here in the states and I'm pretty critical of shows when I personally know the principles.  Is it possible that there is something in the way its being mixed that is messing with the PAL conversion and/or triggering this in transmission?

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It can also be the transmission. Here in the states some stations -- most notably with their secondary and tertiary channels -- pump the compression up to a point where some shows are virtually unwatchable!

Yep. I remember Spike TV being unwatchable because of that.

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" it can get very confusing very quickly. "

thank heavens,  U though it was just me, and maybe getting old...

 

" No professional would turn in sound that was gating the way that the sound is on transmission. "

I too would suspect the transmission path...

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I know the crew that has been doing Drive Ins, Diners and Dives.  They've done it since the show began and I'd say the sound guy is good and very experienced.  I don't know what they do for audio sweetening since they changed production companies, but they used to do extensive sweetening that wasn't limited to 8 hours.  I don't think they do as much anymore, but I don't think the sound is sub standard at all.  I think the bigger issue on these cable shows is the lack of attention paid to post production audio.  The show I work on, Bath Crashers, frustrates me when I see it on the air because I know they don't do much with audio other than some cookie cutter compression and normalizing.  I deliver a split mix.  Host on one channel, everyone else on the other channel.  I give them isos as well and implore them to use them as needed.  The show is a home improvement show and is in essence a reality show so I mix as best I can and rarely get a second chance at stuff.  I'm not sure what other shows do but I think video editors doing the final audio mix is part of why these shows sound the way they do.  I notice sub titles are very common on some "reality" shows even if the sound is ok.  Accents seem to be the incentive for that.

DDD was mixed Seasons 1-11.  After that, it is NOT mixed.  The current shows sound terrible.  But it is NOT the fault of the production crew.  The production audio guys are superb.  DDD is "mixed" by the video editor.  No post FX or Foley, no decent NR or EQ.  Bath Crashers is also NOT MIXED.

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Bernie!

No professional would turn in sound that was gating the way that the sound is on transmission. It has to be the post where the trouble lies. I'll concede that some of the locations are very noisy but surely there has to be a compromise between high background noise and the dialogueversus how much gating and compression is used.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that it was the sound recordist that was at fault.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s.

Not for seasons 1-11 of DDD.  I did not do gating, but tasteful NR and the show was rich and full when it left the suite.  Scripps has a terrible broadcast chain, and The Food Network in the US pancakes it.  After Season 11 (they are now in Season 17), all bets are off.  No post audio mixer touches the show.  The video editors now simply edit at the end of a sentence and the noise "goes away". 

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DDD was mixed Seasons 1-11.  After that, it is NOT mixed.  The current shows sound terrible.  But it is NOT the fault of the production crew.  The production audio guys are superb.  DDD is "mixed" by the video editor.  No post FX or Foley, no decent NR or EQ.  Bath Crashers is also NOT MIXED.

Absolutely right, and it's frustrating because we know how much better the show can sound with care and expertise put into the final mix.  Post production audio is not the place to skimp on the budget!  There is no one size fits all plugin or filter that can do the job that really needs to be done.

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